GOP Grass Roots or Elite – Make your choice

A m e r i c a n P o s t – G a z e t t e

Distributed by C O M M O N S E N S E , in Arizona

Saturday, January 2, 2010

Rob Haney on the GOP

Bold and to the point

Many of you are aware of the internal Republican Party struggle between those who would prefer the Party be controlled solely by elected federal office holders on a top-down basis versus those who believe the grass roots should have a much greater say from a bottom-up basis.

The struggle became obvious last week when an AZ 2010 Campaign Plan devised by the top-down method from representatives of the federal and state office holders was presented.  It was unanimously rejected by a bottom-up method from the AZ State Executive Committee members who were elected by precinct committeemen to represent the grass roots of the party.

The primary reasons for the rejection were problems with who was going to be in charge of the funds,  who was authorized to sign checks, and that the goal of “reelecting all current federal office holders” to “leverage the popularity of our incumbents”, gave everyone heartburn, to say the least.  A plan devised by State Executive Committee members will be presented next week.

I have attached links to SEEINGRED and SONORAN ALLIANCE which cover the controversy in depth.

Also, our Mandatory County Meeting for precinct committeemen will be held on Saturday, Jan 16, 9am -1pm at Grace Community Church in Tempe.   Envelopes containing the details were mailed to all PCs on Dec 31.   We will be electing five Members-at-Large who will serve a two year term on our 28 member County Executive Guidance Committee, and we will vote on bylaw changes and resolutions.

In addition, for a five dollar participating contribution to the County Party, you will able to vote for your preferred candidates for U.S. Senator, Governor and State Attorney General.  Please email me whether you will attend in person or by proxy and if you would be willing to come early to help with various projects such as giving directions or collecting contributions for straw polls, platform booklets and merchandise sales.


  1. Conservative principles says

    This is about two things: Do we want the Republican Party in Arizona to continue to be led by McCain and his left-leaning ways, which weren’t principled enough to get him elected president? Or do we want to return to our conservative roots? The Republican Party’s drift toward the left, making us almost indistinguishable from the Democrats (voting for TARP funds and other bailouts), is what has caused the massive decrease in Republican voter registration. We tried the lurch to the left under McCain’s leadership and it didn’t work, we lost Republicans. It’s time to give conservative principles a try again!

  2. Hatshipsuit says

    I am very disappointed in McCain. He has “reached acroos the aisle” so often that his left arm is now ten feet long.
    We need a Conservative in the Senate and he ain’t it.

  3. Both parties depend on one thing to be successful: money. All the volunteers in the world, recruiting every right-wing PC in the state, all mean nothing without money.

    That’s why there’s something of a balance of power right now between the electeds and the grassroots activists. But because the electeds have money and the grassroots merely votes, the balance tips in favor of…money.

    Winning elections today is about appealing not so much to one’s own party, but to EVERYONE ELSE. Check the AZ voter registration figures. Fewer and fewer party members and more and more independents. With moderates leaving the GOP, it’s a real wonder whey the conservatives haven’t already taken over the party. Maybe because they don’t have any money?

  4. This is not a reply but a question to Mister Nuze who appears to be an interesting fellow:
    “If one were to kick in eight thousand dollars like I know some people who did just that to get appointed to an obscure AZ State Committee position a year and a bit ago would he then be permitted to cast 1600 votes in favor of a particular candidate?”
    And follow up question number one: “Would this depend on the name of the candidate?”
    And follow-up question number two: “Would you Mister Nuze recommend this mode of support for the candidate or write the check direct to the candidate?”

  5. It is entirely possible to stay true to our conservative roots, not allow a top-down controlled party, and say NO to the Haneyites as well.

    The fear-mongering of the Pearce/Haney sect is no better and demands absolute observance of their brand…do not deviate or think for yourself! How top-down is that? It has nothing to do with conservative policy and everything to do with thirst for power. They could be Democrats with super-delegates and feel right at home. They use the trump card name calling to discredit anyone who dares speak out, no matter what they stand for or how true they are to the platform.

    All roads DO NOT lead to McCain and everyone who is opposed to such nastiness is not the enemy!


  6. Yah right! says

    But hey, they are useful idiots.

    What I find comical is the far right thinks they can rule with a fringe edge. I don’t think so. The far right should spend five minutes and think what will appeal to that large bunch of independents that don’t like what a lot of the far right stand for.

    That is how you win elections. JD lost to a little old man who got the middle. JD might win the horsecrap contest the far right is intent on making, but then they will be blasted by any competent dem opposition.

    This fact is what is driving the moderate McCainites mad. The elephant has been eaten, the RINOs have been purged, and what remains is too nutty for the Chamber of Commerce types to put up with.

    All the dems have to do is act like the voice of reason, and the R’s can get a couple of decades in the doghouse.

    Further R disasters include the Shurf and Andy show. When that results in indictments, it will be poison to the R’s, just as AzScam killed the dems for a decade.

    In other words, nobody can play this here game. At least on this side of the fence.

  7. I don’t understand why someone has to choose between being “grassroots” or being “elite. Isn’t the choice simply to be a Republican?

    I want Republicans to win elections. I want to see a vibrant state party. I want Arizona to move forward with thoughtful, conservative leadership. But none of that can be accomplished if Republicans continue fighting amongst ourselves.

    It’s really disappointing to see grown adults squabbling over over semantics and other ridiculousness.

    From an under-25 year old conservative, GROW UP!

  8. The far right wins elections. Moderates Hershberger, O’Halleran and others were replaced by Platform Republicans in 2008. The AZ Legislature turned a whole lot more conservative in 2008, and decidedly less “moderate.”

    If Arpaio has got it wrong, why does he have the best numbers in the state? Why do anti-illegal immigration ballot measures win by 75% of the entire vote at the ballot box–that’s a whole lot of democrats crossing over TO us!

    The Platform Republicans, led by Chairman Haney are doing just fine. Oh…and thanks McCain for promoting Haney from LD Chairman to County Chairman.

    Establishment losses in recent memory: Lisa James-’07, Lisa James-’09, Kevin Gibbons-’08, Tony Bouie (Shadegg and McCain endorsed)-’08, Brooks-’09, Phony JT Ready controversy-’08.

    Thanks for helping the grassroots Platform Republicans prove our point McCain, Kyl, Shadegg and Flake. And thank you Congressman Franks for being a Class Act.

  9. In his post, “Snickers” falls upon the old “Moderate Mantra” that the party must move left to win elections in order to capture the Independent vote.

    What the purveyors of this theory are ignoring is the fact that those who have registered Independent over the past decade have been disillusioned conservatives.

    For the first time since this type of polling has been conducted, self identifyed Conservatives outnumber Liberals in ALL fifty states (Yes, even in New England)

    The question then becomes: Why hasn’t the GOP benefited?

    The answer, I believe, lies in the fact that Republicans, unlike Democrats do NOT have the courage of their convictions when “push comes to shove” or to use another cliche, “when the rubber hits the road”

    Say what you want about Obama and the Dems but they’re making one hell of an effort to enact their platform.

    Contrast this with the Bush/McCain GOPPERS who yap about “small government” when running for office but once in power become “compassionate conservatives”

    In effect, all we receive is “liberalism strong” or “liberalism light” Some choice!

    And of course those unfortunates who attempt to walk the talk while in office are branded as “extemists” by the hacks and shills employed by the beneficiaries of political largess.

    In Arizona’s case the apparent winners of establishmet Republican “good governance” are the hotel, restaurant owners and “Burger Barons” who demand and receive a steady supply of cheap, unskilled and illegal labor, whose benefits, if any, are borne by the taxpayer.

    This is the system McCain and his merry band of “Mavericks” have installed and they have the gall to expect support to maintain party “unity”

    If John and his ilk are the GOP’s wave of the future, the tide has run out.

    Let’s send what passes for an Establishment a message this September and let Shadegg, Flake and Kyl take heed!

  10. With 10% nationally unemployment and rising, home foreclosures rising, businesses folding and all the Democrats offer is more taxes taxes taxes, regulations, restrictions, redistribution, and inserting themselves between people and their doctors,then it ought to be quite simple to run a clear message that resonates with a LARGE swath of the voting public.

    Just was told today by someone who works in GSA that the GSA budget for commissioning art pieces for government offices has never been higher.
    People are out of work and the government spending is going to feathering the government nests – big contracts of thousands of dollars, not a couple of framed pictures, but honkin’ works like murals, scuptures, etc, all of which are “nice” but have no actual added value to the workspace productivity. Artists are getting government support out of the pockets of taxpayaers,while private sector home builders and contractors and their employees have been out of work over two years, with more going out of work by the month. One is a luxury, the other a necessity. The luxury is getting support, the necessity isn’t. How upside down is that? What was in the news – a massage parlor in Virgina got stimulus money?
    Wastage on an epic scale. CUT.

    Arizona is teetering on bankrupcy and all we hear is, more taxes.
    No, there is another approach – CUT government bloat and cut it hard. For every high-profile fire-fighter cut, there are 20 invisible government bureaucrat jobs that could have been cut instead, with no effect on essential public service. Even so-called essential service are more often than not better handled by the private sector than by government.

    Saw the lovely Phoenix light rail today. Really pretty. Half-full at best, long waits. No way that thing is going to recoup its costs thru ridership. Lovely artwork embedded into the stations, too.
    Meanwhile, the number of people walking along the 260 corridor increases by the week – walking stretches of 5 miles and more to get anywhere. Nice to know when they had jobs some of their taxes went to give wealthy Phoenix a fancy rail that it actually didn’t even need, while the same politicians ignored creating and implementing policies that would encourage real job growth in the state’s private sector – like reducing TAXES so the little guys can get work.

  11. Wanumba….don’t leave out the hideous million dollar plus jelly-fish artwork the City of Phoenix bought but now is looking at laying off 400 Police officers. All because they had a line item for art in the budget…and spent it rather than amend the budget in the face of a recession.

  12. Carlist, if the moderate mantra is old, that means it was invented when 5% of voters were indy’s. Today it’s 33% indy and time to revisit what’s practical.

    I don’t think parties really move left or right, but their candidates sure do.

    Conservatism is about a lot more than politics and public policy. Parties aren’t.

  13. nightcrawler says


    I like your style and comments. You are right on the mark. It all comes down to money. Conservatives talk about the evil Chamber on one side of their mouth and then shamelessly ask for donations with the other. Grandma’s last 5 dollars in the coffee can won’t get JD elected in the general if by some miracle he succeeds in the primary. He knows this, thus the delay.

    MCRC is up to its old tricks, this time with a $5 wrinkle. We all know the answer to those that vote, who will be the preferred choice for AD, Senator and Governor. It is a pre-determined outcome. Let’s just say it won’t be McCain, Horne or Brewer. Another right-wing hijack and misrepresentation of facts. I have seen this movie before.

  14. nightcrawler says

    Typo Alert..AG not AD. Sorry about that.

  15. nightcrawler,

    That’s because McCain, Horne and Brewer aren’t conservatives. So why should conservatives support them? Duh.

  16. It was Republican name calling and infighting that gave us Obama. This kind of small-man politics may elect a really tough dogcatcher, but we need real leaders at the national level.

    Name calling and procedural tricks may get you the small seats, but we will be a small party and we will continue to lose the big elections.

    A big party does not need to call names and use dirty tricks to win. If you call yourself a Republican, do the “Right” think and talk about our policies and positions and stop the namecalling and fighting.

  17. Maximillian says

    So much for the spirit of the post that came before this one….

  18. It was McCain and his pathetic attempt at running a campaign that gave us Obama. Obama sounded more conservative than McCain. His handlers kept Sarah under wraps and didn’t let her be herself. Put the blame where it lays. People are sick of politicians who don’t stand for anything. Obama lied, but most of the people who voted for him didn’t know it. Now they do.

  19. Ann Says:
    January 2nd, 2010 at 10:42 pm
    Wanumba….don’t leave out the hideous million dollar plus jelly-fish artwork the City of Phoenix bought but now is looking at laying off 400 Police officers.
    Gads. I did miss that, but I didn’t miss the one that looks like one of those heart-eating Aztec gods. Sort of chillingly ominous when they picked that over police.

  20. Let’s bottom line it.

    McCain, if he wins, is not going to stay in office for more than a year or two. As soon as he retires, the party and governor will be able to appoint a new “incumbant” – or so goes the plan.

    The McCainiac moderates and liberals will do WHATEVER they have to in order to ensure the continuing hegemony of the McCainiac political “family”.

    They will do ANYTHING. And they’re looking for jobs. They are desparate to hold on, despite the rising tide of disaffected conservative grassroots and teapartiers.

  21. Travis:

    It was an incompetent Republican establishment which paved the way for Obama particularly between the years 2001-6 when they “pissed” away an inhertited budget surplus and the President failed to veto a single spending bill until his final year in office

    Supressing interest rates, allowing major banks to lend at a 40 to 1 loan reserve ratio and pushing sub=primie housing loans did not originate with Obama and certainly don’t resonate with those who still believe in a “Small government” party.

    Over a trillion dollars has been siphoned off by an ever widening Mid East Morass with no end in sight in no small measure to GOP “Muscular Wilsonianism” putting us into increasing Saudi and Chinese debt.

    One result is the disillusion of Conservative voters who are increasingly registering independent.

    That, Snickers and Nightcrawler lies at the bottom of the Independent registration growth.

    Try canvassing your precincts and talk to former registered Republicans. And don’t forget to ask them their opinion regarding John McCain.

    Get your fannies out of staff offices and hit the streets. It should be enlightening!

  22. nightcrawler says


    I’m not so sure McCain will bail in two years. If you look at his mom, his gene pool is good. I see him hanging around for awhile. What else would he do with himself all day ? Bark at the caddie or valet ?

    Certainly people want to keep their jobs, especially in this economy. That is no surprise. Have some of the McCain folks been aggressive, yes. More so than the MCRC executive committee backing one GOP candidate over another in a primary, nah.
    As Clinton said, politics is a contact sport.


    Ex-conservatives only make up a small portion of the independent movement. Many in that category are simply tired of political party theatre. I have considered going independent myself and I am no conservative.

    To your point about the Bush administration and the economy. Actually you are making the case for MORE regulation, not less. The system failed because of greed at all levels, starting with mortgage brokers, realtors onward to bank executives, international investors and investment bankers.

    A pure laissez-faire capitalist society sounds great on paper, but assumes everyone is honest and plays by the rules. That as we all found out is not the case.

    And that my friends, is where the rubber meets the road.

  23. ALL of the Congressional Republican incumbents in 2008 except one were moderates. The same thing goes for the AZ Legislature. The number of conservatives has been growing while the Democrat Lite group that worked closely with Nappy are almost all gone.

    Any argument that the conservative philosophy is a losing one is absurd on its face. Remember that the conservatives support the Republican Party Platform which has been in place for ovre thirty years now and is obviously the mainstream of the Party. The moderates are the left wing of the Party.

    To quote nightcrawler but with factual foundation, that my friends is where the rubber meets the road.

  24. What nightcrawler failed to mention is that McCain was the leader of the 2006 amnesty, of McCain/Feingold of McCain/Lautenberg against the 2nd amendment amont other things.

    You BET the grassroots conservatives were aggressive in opposing him. Why? Because he’s a LIBERAL. There’s no way around it.

    The days of his slash and burn party politics are over.

  25. James Davidson says

    Isn’t it about what’s right for America and for Arizona? When you get off that and start worrying about your own jobs, you lose. Why don’t you all kiss and make up and let’s get back to what matters.

  26. Nightcrawler:

    When government forces economic policy on market participants whether or not de-jure, it becomes de-facto regulation.

    Sub-prime loans are a perfect example.

    And fascistic government-private sector entities such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the beloved toys of Liberal Dems) should also be eliminated.

    Artificially supressing interest rates is also a government inspired activity.

    But to show I can “reach out”, I’ll offer you a deal on a piece of legislative regulation. How about jointly sponsoring an effort to outlaw fractional reserve banking?

    If not, how about abolishing the F.D.I.C. so that irresponsibility isn’t rewarded?

    Oh, and btw, for the first time since ideological divisions have been tracked, conservatives outnumber liberals in all fifty states, no matter how they’re registered to vote.

    Therefore my assertion that the new Independents are largely Republicans, disgruntled by economically self-interested and “Liberal-Light” party leadership is borne out.

    In any event this year’s elections will reflect a definite pattern. I don’t think it will be the ‘business as usual’ desires of the McCainiacs!

  27. Nightcrawler:

    When governments direct economic activities whether in a jure or de-facto manner it constitutes regulation.

    Let’s look at the genesis of the housing bubble and the political pressures to enter sub-prime mortgage lending. THAT policy was not germinated nor generated in the private sector!

    I believe that a couple of Liberal Democratic sandboxes, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (both prime examples of the government-private sector partnerships known as “fascist corperatism) played a major part.

    And guess who reaped significant largess due to their positions on the respective boards (Hint:It wasn’t those opposed to regulation)

    One might also say that artifically suppressing interest rates to ensure spending on potentially high risk malinvestments is not exactly a free market procedure but one which can satisfy political needs.

    In any event this type of activity (along with access to computers which can churn out wealth from nothing) are located on your side of the fence.

    But in the “Big Tent” spirit of “reaching out”, I’ll make you an offer. How about co-sponsoring a movement to outlaw fractional reserve banking in the name of fiscal responsibility? Now this would be an interesting regulatory move.

    And if unsuccessful, why not abolish the F.D.I.C. to send a message to the “too big to fail crowd”?

    The creation of moral hazards can go a long way to clear up markets without the usual ineptitudes displayed by the guys who run the Post office and AmTrack!

    On another point of contention: As self declared conservatives outnumber those who identify themselves as liberal in every state, my prior assertion that a GOP drift to the Right will acquire more support than adhering to paths trod by McCain and Arlen Spector!

  28. kralmajales says

    What the conservatives have been saying on this post is what will be the end of them in 2010 and afterward. Seriously. Look at history. Simply put…there are not enough of you to ditch moderates and still win elections….and you have nothing prospectively to offer the country but a failed and bankrupt set of ideas and principles that were proven false time and again. Obama may not be swimming in love right now, but the GOP still ranks worse. When this economy improves…UNDER OBAMA, it will be over for you.

    And it will improve…it is…now.

  29. nightcrawler says


    What state of altered reality are you living in ?

    Abolish the FDIC and fractional reserve banking ? Are you kidding me ? Put down that Ron Paul pipe dude.

    The FDIC is there to protect the depositors not the bank. Without it, many people would not use banks. The money supply (M1-M3) would shrink and credit available for individuals and business would grind to a halt. Hello Depression and collapse of the US economy. To compound your foolishness you then state we should stop fractional reserve banking. Again, this practice would collapse banking systems around the world.

    The reason banks can pay you interest on your money is because they are investing it elsewhere. Requiring 100% percent reserves will turn banks into huge safe deposit boxes. You would have to pay them to watch your funds. You might as well bury a coffee can with cash in your backyard.

    Pure folly.

  30. Nightcrawler, it is possible to have privately supplied deposit insurance. Federal programs are not necessary. In fact, some banks and some securities brokers do have additional private insurance. Having the insurance private rather than government will force people to be more conscious of the financial health of their banks and insurance companies, but it should not drive people away from banks.In fact, private insurance companies would probably close down questionable banks faster than the government with a smaller amount of losses because they would be more cautious with their own money.

    As far as partial reserves, I agree with you. Without Federal insurance and regulations, banks could differentiate themselves based on their interest rates and reserve levels as well as number of days notice required for withdrawing deposits from savings accounts and minimum balance requirements for checking accounts. The reliability of their private insurer would also be important.

    There is no reason, though, why the system could not be less regulated by the Federal and state governments.

  31. kralmajales says

    “Nightcrawler, it is possible to have privately supplied deposit insurance.”

    It is possible to have fairies emerge from my butt too…but highly unlikely.

    A short story. My father in law…a good republican that I argue with a lot and who I greatly respect…just got two checks in the mail from the FDIC. He had bought some CDs from a couple of private, small banks in the Atlanta area. Both failed…and in each case he got his money back through the federal insurance plan of the FDIC.

  32. kralmajales says

    And Hunter…no reason why the system couldn’t be less regulated? Are you kidding? It has been less regulated and because of that banks have failed left and right. Many have gone under. Look at recent stats. No one was watching while they made risky loans, depositers did not know the solvency of the banks that they invested their money in or took their mortgages from. Without that kind of knowledge, no free market system can work and lots of good honest people get hurt.

    We need MORE regulation and more information on what banks do and how they loan. That is the moral of the story that what caused TARP tells us.

  33. How did those banks fail with the FDIC watching them? Obviously, private insurers would do a better job than government insurers.

    Also, there is already private insurance available and some banks and investment companies do insure their depositors and investors with them. They only provide supplemental insurance to the government plans because the government plans are mandatory.

    Government regulation caused more problems that it prevented. The government generated housing boom and subsequent bust was a result of government policies putting people into mortgages that they could not afford. If it weren’t for government guarantees and programs pressuring lenders to “promote” home ownership even among those not financially able to afford mortgages, we would never have had a financial crisis of this magnitude. Government regulations involving bond rating institutions also limited the extent of competition in the bond rating business and kept mortgage backed securities rated higher than they should have been.

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