Going Nation wide.

Warning: Link to a Liberal Web Site.

     The management has asked us not to link to leftist sites but this is a special case. Looks like Max Blumenthal at The Nation has been reading our blog or else talking to someone who does. We are sorry to be missing out on all the traffic that a link to our story about the real backers of Grassroots Arizona PAC would have provided but at least the truth is getting out there.

     Our sources have hinted that more coverage on McCain’s reputation in Arizona may be coming in the New York Times and on NPR.


Comments

  1. Sonoran Truth Squad says

    We wuz robbed!

  2. SA is a joke.

  3. This was a realization by District 11 precinct committeemen that we were about to be hoodwinked by a band of big names who never attended our meetings, yet suddenly wanted to wield control. None of us are fools, which is why they were overwhelmingly quashed in their efforts to win one for the McGipper.
    We know him best and like him least.

  4. Oro Valley Dad says

    bill,

    Is that why you read and comment on our site?

  5. Grassroots girl says

    It is pretty ironic that Haney was the one who pushed through the resolution saying that elected PC’s who endorse Democrats should be removed when he agrees to talk to the leading left-wing magazine in the country to trash a Republican.

    This is one of Haney’s quotes about McCain in the article:
    “The guy has no core, his only principle is winning the presidency. He likes to call his campaign the ‘straight talk express.’ Well, down here we call it the ‘forked tongue express.'”

    Can you imagine the outrage if, for example, McCain had said that about Don Goldwater?

    For Haney comment at all to the Nation (let alone the outrageous nature of the comments) is aiding and abetting the enemy… and yes, I use that language on purpose… treason.

    If McCain ends up being our nominee, you can bet Rob Haney’s comments will be used over and over again by the Democrats. Thanks for your help, Rob. Nice loyalty to the Party.

  6. Oro Valley Dad says

    I do believe the disloyalty started with the good senator making a mockery of the platform. It is McCain that keeps co-sponsoring bills with Democrats: to limit free speech, in support of gun control, and offering a path to amnesty before securing the border.

    McCain had a love affair with the lefty press for years. Haney gets one kiss on the cheek and you call him the traitor. Please… Well the party is over and the MSM is past their fascination with Mr. Straight Talk. Now that he has been passed around town a time or two the base is not very interested in having him back. McCain is only reaping what he has sown over these many years.

    Go ahead and attack Haney all you want. He is not running for President. McCain is and it is his record as a senator that is at issue.

  7. Grassroots girl does raise an interesting point… should McCain be the nominee, just how much fodder will Haney and Tuttle (with his yellow badge)and the like give to the Dems? And what if, in the end, the Dems prevail? Won’t Mr. Haney and Mr. Tuttle, he also has a story out about his dislike of McCain, be complicit in the Dems victory by offering information that allowed them to attack? Don’t for one minute think this little brouhaha will be buried; it will be front page, center column with color. It will be on every televised hit piece shown in every burg of America.

    Supporting your candidate, having dialogue about the highs and lows of one over the other, that sort of thing is what makes campaigns what they are. But these guys have loaded the guns for the Dems and pointed it for them, right at McCain. How much more damaging is that to a Republican than having your name on a Dem website? It does seem one sided.

    The drama of the Haney/Tuttle saga will not end well for anyone. Those who follow their lead will find an ugly end, too. Their words and actions have gone beyond kiss and make-up, should McCain prevail or not, the damage is done and it is deep. The party is hurt; this is not healthy or beneficial to anyone. The duplicity of allowable behavior, based on who and what you are, who and what the other guy/gal is, seems so absurd as to wonder why it has so much vengeance?

    Sen. McCain has not been the conservative voice all appreciate but playing to the enemy seems as bad as any of his real or perceived transgressions. Saying “no” to the interview couldn’t have been that hard.

  8. Oro Valley Dad says
  9. Perhaps speaking out against McCain will provide fodder to democrats down the road. Conservatives owe it to our country, though, to tell the truth about our Senator, and support alternative choices who are better suited to the presidency. If that hurts McCain down the road, so be it. I’d rather do all I can now to prevent his nomination rather than wishing I had when he alters the 8 Bills of Rights he hasn’t already touched.

  10. Grassroots Girl is listed as an associate of Politicio Mafioso. They’re inveterate McCain supporters.
    Such comments should be taken with that proverbial “grain of salt.”

  11. Sonoran Truth Squad says

    Ann and GG miss several points in all the fuss about PCs who support Dems, etc.

    Republicans who say bad things about other Republicans DURING PRIMARIES are different from Republicans who support Democrats IN GENERALS. Technically, McCain isn’t even a candidate for President yet. He is merely exploring. Should he run, Haney, Tuttle, Ann and GG will have every opportunity to campaign for or against the Republicans of their choice during the primary period.

    It is after the primary that the rules change, as they should. Should McCain become the nominee, Ann, GG, Tuttle, Haney and all the rest will be rightly expected to support the party’s nominee, to remain silent, or if they desire to oppose the nominee, to resign from their party positions.

    Given the unkind comments Ann and GG had for Randy Pullen in his chairman’s race, how much “ammunition” did they provide the Democats with to use against our chairman? I don’t imagine that either of them want that standard applied…

    As for kissing and making up, McCain was the target of criticism from a group of party activists as a result of legislation he pushed. That is hardly unusual. A skilled politician works to repair that damage. McCain sought payback and funded an operation designed to settle the score and oust Republican PCs. The fact that liberal Democrats from San Fransisco paid much of the expenses was stupid. The fact that he wanted revenge was stupid. The fact that he lost was embarrassing for him. He risked so very much to gain so very little and now he is paying the price. He could have and should have ignored them…

  12. Once again STS, you want to bring up the part about PC’s supporting Democrats in GENERALS. Randy Pullen GAVE MONEY to DEMOCRATS in GENERALS.

    The fact that Mr. Haney sat down and talked with one of the most liberal blogs and liberal reporters (have you read the rest of his articles for the NATION and his blog)- should outrage us all.

    Rob Haney was more than thrilled to do the interview, and has now made allies with the ultra-left. I don’t see anywhere in there where Mr. Haney talks about the attributes and high marks of his favorite primary nominee. Instead, he goes on an unabashed rant marking his personal vendetta for McCain.

  13. http://www.thenation.com/directory/bios/max_blumenthal

    Max Blumenthal also writes for Salon.com (which is also extremely liberal). Read Max’s articles. I can’t believe that Rob Haney would ever give him the time of day- but he just couldn’t help himself- he HATES John McCain and he’s willing to partner with Democrats to show it. He had a quote about McCain being vindictive, but this is one of the most mean-spirited accounts that I have seen in a long time.

    If McCain is the nominee- do you suppose Rob Haney, the faithful Republican leader from Distric 11 will put down his sword and help elect a Republican to the White House?

  14. Oro Valley Dad says

    Julie,

    If Salon.com is such a horrible, liberal publication what was McCain doing talking to them?

  15. Nightcrawler says

    This is an example of democracy in action. I certainly don’t with everything that Haney and Tuttle have to say. That yellow button is an embarrassment to the GOP and Tuttle should know better.

    Having said that, Haney and Tuttle won their respective positions through working the grassroots. With victory come the spoils. If you don’t like it, then by all means get more of your friends involved in the next election cycle. They stood up to the establishment which gives them folk hero status in conservative circles. I am personally not offended by their actions they are entitled to have a point of view.

  16. Sonoran Truth Squad says

    Julie, even putting aside Randy’s explanation for those donations (which satisfied enough people that he is now our State Chairman), it is worth remembering that they occured before he was even a PC in our party. That is apples and oranges when inserted into a debate over the conduct of our elected party leadership.

    Ronald Reagan was once a registered Democrat… He didn’t just give them money, he was one of them. Even worse than this high crime you report on from Randy Pullen’s past. It is clear that you do not feel that Ronald Reagan would be an acceptable choice for state party chairman, not to mention Republican President of the United States.

    I find that position unreasonable…

  17. Two issues are at play here:
    1) The actions of AN ELECTED party leaders, (while holding office) aimed at negatively impacting a fellow Republican who has declared his candidacy (or exploratory committee) for President. An article in a nationally distributed and widely read publication is far different than the anonymous postings on a regional blog between a handful of people about the state chairman. By the way, I’m not sure my words were ever “unkind”, unsupportive YES, but unkind…I do recall trying very hard to not be unkind and to keep it topical. Something I cannot say was done by others, but one wrong does not make it right.
    2) The double standard of who can and can’t follow their own convictions. It has become very apparent that the Haney/Tuttle mentality is definitely of the do as I say, not as I do sort of thing.

    Did Randy Pullen give money to Dems. Yes. Did his wife give money to the Wish List, Yes. Was it their right to do so, YES! Where either of them elected Republican officials at the time, NO! If it is OK for them to do as they did, it is OK for me, Grassroots girl, and whoever else wants to write things on an open blog about the topics at hand. As long as they follow the guidelines set by the moderator and can back it up, that is why this site exists. Don’t even try to double back around and resort to the old posts, this is another topic entirely.

    If Haney and Tuttle want to be able to do as they want and say what they please, they need to step down. Then they are just Republicans with an opinion and are free to shout them from the roof tops. But, now they are using their elected office, and all that brings with it, to demean a Republican candidate. That is wrong. As long as they carry a title as a representative of the party, they need to keep their mouths shut and their opinions to themselves!

    It doesn’t matter who the person is, now it is McCain, but what if it was someone you liked? Would you want the party leaders to be able to use their position to affect the public perception of the candidate? I know how upset people were about the CD 8 fiasco… What they are doing is blatantly wrong and an abuse of their position. To say they are accountable to the voters later on, that is a big help after the damage is already done and it is such a cop out to suggest they should be allowed to go unchecked. I am not necessarily a McCain fan, to be honest I am not too excited about any of them, but I am a strong believer in the GOP. This hurts the party much more than it will ever hurt McCain.

    If Randy Pullen wants to prove he is a man of character and doesn’t play favorites or carry a double standard in assessing the correctness of behavior, he needs to take these two to the woodshed. Let them know, in no uncertain terms, it doesn’t matter how much anyone (including Pullen) dislikes any particular candidate, the Arizona party leadership will not be the wedge used by the liberal media to undermine any candidate. If they cannot abide by that, resign immediately.

  18. Oro Valley Dad says

    Ann,

    How come McCain can buddy up to the liberal media for years but Haney talking to them once is a betrayal? It really seems like a double standard.

    What about the times that McCain has undercut the president? He voted against the Bush tax cuts and led the Gang of 14. It seems like McCain has consistently worked against party unity. What’s up with that?

  19. Glad you asked! The point is not about whether a person holding public office should/could express their opinions/beliefs in general as a part of a media interview; the point is if an ELECTED official of the Republican Party should be using the media to undermine or malign a candidate of that party.

    There are many different measurements of loyalty, unity, or just plain old decency that could be used. Who McCain talks to and about what, his voting record, and his overall actions will be made very public in the course of the campaign. Some of it will be done by other Republicans who are also running. In that instance, it is just part of the game. His voting record is for those who elected him to view and for the entire country to analyze if he continues on his quest for the presidency. The voting public will decide if they like him or not. Chuck Hagel had the best voting record in the Senate when it comes to voting with the President, but I would venture to say he is about as far off right now as you can get.

    Nothing in the description of party leadership signifies their responsibility to perform that task for the public; to the contrary such behavior is not a part of their duties and is actually in direct opposition to their role.

    Simply put; there is no comparison between McCain, a very well known national figure, talking about politics in whatever magazine that seeks his opinions and a local legislative district chair or the county chairman publicly denouncing and demeaning a candidate of our party. Who it is should have no relevance. This was very much a manipulation used to make McCain and Republicans look bad. Haney and Tuttle just couldn’t control themselves enough to realize it. They were used for a pointed piece to trash McCain, one more “R” down and few more to go. Hillary, Obama, and the group should write them a thank you note.

  20. Sonoran Truth Squad says

    I think where this conversation gets tricky for some of us, even though most of you aren’t aware that you’re debating the point, is the question of party loyalty versus morality.

    If you know someone lacks the integrity and/or character to hold office, do you say so? Or do you, in the name of “party” keep silent?

    Ann, GG, and others would tell party officials in Florida that it doesn’t matter what they know or think they know about Mark Foley’s sexual orientation or how he may or may not conduct himself. They are party officials and if they have nothing nice to say about an elected Republican then they should shut up or resign… We saw how that can turn out when the truth is revealed in spite of the collective silence of so many loyal Republicans.

    Had they held office in Florida, Tuttle, Haney et al would be shouting from the rooftops that there is something wrong and that it needs to be addressed. They probably would have started quietly but, if they had been brushed off by party leadership, they certainly would have gone public.

    They view their Republican registration as I do: The Republican Party is the natural home for someone who holds and shares my values. That among these values are honesty, decency, and character. I will not lie to protect those who are not worthy of my support and yes, silence does count as a lie when you can speak and let the truth be known.

    You may have a difference of opinion over whether or not McCain or any other candidate is honest, trustworthy, etc. But if you feel in your core or, as is the case for Tuttle, Haney and so many others in this state, if your first-hand knowledge and experience leaves you with no doubt as to the lack of character, integrity and/or honesty of a candidate, be they Republican or Democrat, then you speak the truth and let the chips fall where they may, especially during a primary while your party still has a chance to learn the truth and find an alternative. That is a large part of what primaries are all about.

    I would not silence those who act in good conscience. I might disagree with them and I might even do so publicly as would be my right. But the odds are very good that people like Haney and Tuttle got elected exactly because they are viewed as principled men who will do the right thing first, and the party thing second.

    That’s not neccesarily a bad thing…

  21. Nightcrawler says

    STS,

    Your post makes many valid points. The question is does the end justify the means ? When does disclosure morph into retribution ? The character and integrity door swings both ways. It would be nice to see someone walk through without getting hit in the rear.

  22. Oro Valley Dad says

    Ann,

    You state your case very well. Still, after all the duplicity of McCain I am reluctant to silence 2 members of the party after everyone else has had their say. Is there anything in the article that is not already a matter of public record? Did Haney give up some secret that was here to fore unknown to anyone who has access to Google?

    The treachery of the CD8 Republican Primary is still fresh in my mind. If Haney and Tuttle should resign (as you mentioned) then a lot of other should join them.

    What about the double dealing by Kyl and Shadegg, et al in signing the Grassroots Arizona PAC letterhead that was paid for in large measure with Democrat money? I know they are elected officials but I also view them as leaders of the Republican Party in Arizona. I think they are as mixed up in this whole mess as anyone and I do not find their behavior much better than anyone else.

    If I were a district chairman (I am only a PC) I might operate differently than Haney. But it is interesting how many allies he has and how McCain has not been able to neutralize him after some high stakes attempts. I guess my take is that I am not shedding any tears for McCain at this point. He played rough and so are some of his opponents. Does it damage the party? No worse than McCain – Feingold damages our very freedoms to speak out during an election. What is a party worth if our fundamental freedoms are compromised away by elected officials from that party? To me, not much.

  23. If there are issues of immorality, such as your comparison to Mark Foley, then the actions of Haney and Tuttle are even more profoundly wrong. To disguise such and try to use other means to discredit someone in an effort to the same end is, in fact, complicit behavior. I understood the objection to be his politics and personal stand on certain issues, and in as much as they did not agree with McCain. A personal dislike for his style, manner, or even his temper may make him unfit to hold office in your mind, but please do not liken it to Mark Foley unless you are ready to defend such a comparison.

    Again, they are ELECTED to the party leadership therefore they have relinquished certain personal freedoms. Just like the PC’s who endorsed Janet. They chose to enter the realm of leadership; they very much enjoy the benefits and love the attention. This is just part of the position, if they don’t like it….quit. Otherwise, campaign actively for any Republican who opposes him; do not offer any endorsements, do not donate money, and do not agree to help his campaign in any way. Unless of course, he becomes the nominee, then either put up or shut up. But, do not allow yourself to be published in a national paper or magazine as was done.

  24. Oro Valley Dad says

    Ann,

    Haney set a very small trap for McCain and instead of walking around he jumped in with both feet.

    Speaking of those Republicans for Janet how many of them did Matt Salmon dismiss from their positions as PCs?

  25. OVD,

    You are exactly right, everything in the articles were public record. Let McCain bare his own burden. His actions are very public. That elected Republican leadership from Arizona would trash him is the story, not McCain. Their extreme dislike for him is the vehicle they used to get these two to rant and no doubt about it, it will come back. Some 527 somewhere is busy putting together a hit piece using the words of Tuttle and Haney to influence voters toward a Democrat or the weaker Republican in the primary and you can bet it will be spread across the country. Black and white headlines with pictures of the yellow button… won’t we all be proud! If McCain is the nominee….I can see the election night party now…..as we all watch the numbers come in and every eye in the room is watching to see if those two show their faces.

    What others have done and been subject to great criticism for, CD 8 for example, should be no less distasteful because of agreement with the purpose of the current topic. The end does not justify the means. To support this action because you agree with them means your outrage over CD 8 was only because you were on the wrong side of the heat.

    The Kyl-Shadegg thing, we can go on forever about who was a part of what and how it happened and who said what. If it was local, stayed local, and local people took care of it… sounds like it is all in the family to me. No favoritism or double standard. It was a local campaign within the local party and they, being members of the party, have a say. We could bring up all kinds of things about the different LD meetings and who was allowed to have proxies and who wasn’t, the party chairman’s race and who said what and why and if it was true or not, comments made at LD meetings about certain candidates, etc….the bottom line is that was all local and about local people in local positions NOT a candidate for POTUS and national publications.

  26. Matt Salmon, Randy Pullen, and Lyle Tuttle do not have the legal authority to dismiss PC’s nor does any LD chair or resolution no matter how many votes it might get. They are elected and, as such, can only be removed by an act of recall brought by the electorate from which they were originally elected, In this case, their respective precincts.

    The thought of other possible action, while it might be more convenient and brisk, is just not legal.

  27. Sonoran Truth Squad says

    Ann:

    Speaking out against the likes of Mark Foley would be “even more profoundly wrong” than speaking out against John McCain? I’m not gonna jump all over that because I assume you mis-wrote something and your actual point was lost. Please try and repost something that makes more sense..

    As for local politics staying local, etc., the reality of politics everywhere (in business, relationships, politics itself, etc.) is that when you try to kill somebody and fail, they will remember and try to return the favor. When national/federal leaders like Kyl, McCain or whomever come down to the PC level to try and whack somebody, that somebody is going to remember and, when the time comes, likely try to return the favor. Ann, GG, and all the rest have never criticized our delegation for trying to overthrow a district chairman. That was stupid, wasteful, and the entire affair became an embarrassment to them because they failed. A U.S. Senator, a former Governor of the state, $17,000 raised from Arizona and San Francisco, campaign consultants and an election day war room ran out of a Scottsdale hotel versus a 60-something retired IBM manager and the IBM guy kicked their ass… You might want him to be a “good winner” and keep quiet about the whole thing so that these same folks can become President of the United States and have the IRS crawl up his backside to try and settle the score, but Rob Haney has every right to defend himself.

    When national leaders come down to the local level to make a mess, it is national news, especially when they fail. That is why it was so stupid. McCain gambled lots for very little. Whether it was bad judgement or his temper or both we won’t know, but to the degree that is does reflect on his personal make-up and whether or not he should be given nuclear weapons, it deserves to be considered.

    And frankly, let this be a lesson to the rest of the delegation. Think before you act against the grassroots of the party.

    Finally, let’s be real… No 527 is designing mailpieces around Lyle Tuttle or Rob Haney. They’ve got Dr. James Dobson and plenty of nationally known players who have made it clear that McCain is “unacceptable”. I think that some of the PCs and folks who post here often overestimate our importance in the scheme of things…

  28. Oro Valley Dad says

    Ann,

    I did not know that two big time Democrat supporters from San Francisco paying to oust a Republican District Chairman in Central Phoenix was keeping it local.

    You want to hold Haney and Tuttle accountable but when has anyone else in the party ever been held accountable for doing something wrong? Are they the first (and probably last) people who you want to punish for doing something that damages the party? I am not outraged over the CD8 debacle. I expected it. I just think your case for Haney and Tuttle to step down after everyone else stabbing fellow Republicans in the back is weak.

    I did not find John Shadegg’s comment to the Arizona Republic that “the jury is still out” on Randy Pullen keeping it “local.” It would have been easy for Shadegg to just say that he was ready to “move forward” but instead he had to get in a little did while talking to a large newspaper about internal party politics.

    I never said that I support what has gone on but I am enjoying it. Everyone seems to be getting what they have earned and deserve, starting with the “senior” senator from Arizona.

  29. STS,

    I may not have made myself clear in the Foley reference. Thank you for the request for clarification. My point was this; if there is any truth to the comparison made with McCain and Foley as to the degree of immorality, then to hide your disgust behind other issues in order to prevent him from being elected is wrong. Any knowledge of such a degree of immorality would require outrage and more than that, legal involvement. But if it is a dislike based on personal knowledge of his general character that is deeply offensive, but not such immoral acts, to compare him to Foley is wrong. Foley was…well, I don’t need to go there, I am sure we would agree on any description I could come up with as not being strong enough. To use him as the example of comparison incites much more than a disagreement of ideals or a general dislike based on cause or not.

    About whacking somebody…sounds like Politico Mafioso to me. In reality, many people find Haney and or Tuttle just as distasteful as others find McCain. Personally, there are some people in the party I think are real scumbags. If given the chance, I’d like to “whack” them. They are self-serving, arrogant, can’t form a complete sentence, and really could use some help in the area of hygiene. (yes that matters!) But because they feel like they have the umbrella coverage of the Tuttle/Haney political machine the get away with it and will keep it up until they have to pay the piper. As a PC, I agree with you about the over estimation of our own importance. But do not doubt the very real possibility of seeing these articles again. It was printed in the New York Times…hardly a local political blog with the same 5 or 6 (or in this case 2-3) people writing back and forth all night long.

    OVD,

    I did not take Shadegg’s comment to mean he did not support Randy. Rather that because the race was so close, time would tell how well he was accepted by the almost equal number who did not vote for him or if he would prove his election was for the best. Sounds like a truthful political analyses to me. You don’t know what else he said that wasn’t printed either. Having been the subject of a news interview or two, they often print the quotes the way they want the story to go.

    There should be a time to say enough already to these types of antics. Randy Pullen could do a lot to prove his character and commitment to the party by doing just that. Maybe not calling for their resignation, the party votes can hold them accountable when the time comes. But, setting a standard of behavior and holding it up as an example with a firm hold on things would go a long way.

    Think what you want, so will I. So on that note… I’m done.

  30. Sonoran Truth Squad says

    Ann, I never made comparisons between McCain and Foley. Saying that I did so only allows you to avoid answering the Foley question entirely.

    My point was that if local Republican county chairs in Florida knew or even thought they knew what was going on in Mark Foley’s head, you would have them remain silent or resign rather than provide the democrats or national media with negative things to say about a Republican elected official.

    I was disagreeing and saying that we often have a moral obligation to speak the truth about folks who are running. If you are a liar or a cheat and you want to be the President of the United States, then those people who know you to be a liar or a cheat should say so NOW as opposed to later or never. NOW is when we have a whole slew of other Republicans to choose from so if their story checks out and one of our candidates is unworthy of the office, then we can choose another GOPer…

    Requiring the Tuttles and Haneys of our party to “shut up” even if they know matters of great importance that relate to a candidate’s integrity or personal conduct is as wrong here in Arizona as it would have been in Florida.

    That was the point that was made to which you have not yet responded.

    And keep in mind we’re talking about taking action against folks who have demonstrated fatal character flaws. These are not equal in weight to your concerns over grammer usage and personal hygiene. Good and decent people sometimes smell. Give me a smelly and good President over a vindictive liar who smells like Heaven itself…

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