Altman vs. Baier vs. Sean Noble

In response to a few comments made in another posting, Sean Noble of Congressman Shadegg’s office has asked us to post the following:

Yes, Congressman Shadegg endorses Maria Baier for City Council District 3.  She has been a strong supporter of his dating back to his 1994 primary against a tax-raising establishment candidate (Jim Bruner).  They worked together in Bob Corbin’s AG’s office in the 80’s.
Altmann may have flip flopped on the tax increases (ending up with the right position) but his support for bioscience spending and the downtown campus is troubling.  You and I both agree that the city already has more money than it needs, but if it’s going to get more, I’d rather it go to Police funding than handouts for specific industries in the name of “economic development.”  Altmann also touts the endorsedment of Sam Coppersmith – many times the liberal than Phil Gordon or Paul Johnson.
I guess, as is unfortunately the case in city elections, neither of us have a perfect choice.
I don’ t know Altmann, but I have worked closely with Maria for many years, and while she isn’t as conservative as I’d prefer, she is substantially better than Bilsten. 
John Shadegg is a great Congressman and I am proud to say he represents me.  Sean Noble represents him well as his chief of staff.  However, we continue to urge voters in city council district 3 to support Jon Altmann.



  1. Sean,

    If Altmann’s support for bioscience and the downtown campus is troubling, then is Baier’s support as well? According to her Republic survey on line, she calls “creating a vibrant downtown through the recruitment of ASU’s presence, and the creation of the bioscience center two of the “single best” things that have happened to Phoenix in the last five years. Altmann may support it, but Baier thinks the two things you call “troubling” to be the best thing that has happened to Phoenix in the last five years.

  2. Is it more noble to support those who may be able to support your own aspirations for the future than to oppose the Nappy supporter? Oh that it were not so.

    I have a headache from the congressional office machinations and I prefer Ibuprofen to a Baier. I am surprised that Sean used that issue to defend the support for Baier. He usually in more competent in issue research.

  3. Curious,

    I agree, what I find most troubling about Shadegg’s(Noble’s) support of Baier is the fact that Baier, as a Republican, lent her name to Napolitano against the Republican nominee. I don’t care if the nominee was Munsil or some liberal Republican, if you are a Republican, and you don’t like nominee, then you are free to vote for the Democrat, but don’t lend your name and your party affiliation to the other party. It only hurts the Republican nominee. Shadegg, as a Republican leader in this state, should be cognizant of how this is harmful to the party and should probably not subsequently reward Republicans who publicly cross over with endorsements.

  4. Nice try Sean but your dog don’t hunt. If it is true that “neither of us have a perfect choice” then why doesn’t the congressman just stay out of the race? There is no need for him to get involved in a non-partisan municipal election.

    I wonder if Baier will be a “strong supporter” of Shadegg when he runs against Napolitano in 2010? Will the congressman be upset with Republican for Janet in 2010 when he is the Republican Senate nominee? How will Shadegg feel about Republicans for Lord in 2008? What goes around comes around and John Shadegg and Sean Noble are quickly becoming Jon Kyl Republicans, conservative on the campaign trail – appeasers behind closed doors.

    Have fun running a statewide campaign gainst Janet in 2010. I hope Shadegg will get lots of help from Baier with all of those rural and non-Maricopa voters who have already voted for Janet multiple times and have never heard of a certain congressman from Phoenix.

  5. Maria Baier is the sister of Phoenix Fire Chief, Bob Kahn. As a councilperson she would be voting on issues that are directly related to her brother and his union. The proximity of this relationship is troubling.
    And for Baier to have her name listed on Republicans for Janet is not only troubling—it is shameful.

    I don’t care if John Shadegg worked with her in the past. We have come to expect integrity from him. When does one simply say, “No!” to an endorsement request?

    She has the endorsement of liberal Phil Gordon.He is salivating at the prospect of following Napolitano to the governor’s office. As Republicans we should pull together to elect someone who shares our vision. Some of us may have worked with Shadegg’s opponent, Bob Lord, but I can’t imagine any of us supporting him over Congressman Shadegg. It cuts both ways.

  6. Nice of Sean to respond to what he likes, but he is still ignoring our questions about why Shadegg is unwilling to help the Arizona Republican Party in its efforts. When the time comes to run for U.S. Senate, do you suppose he’ll want the Party’s support for himself? I’m guessing yes, and if he fails to support our party now, I’ll be remembering and reminding everyone of it when he comes to us for help.

    Quit dodging the question Sean. Be a man. Answer us.

  7. I think you already have your answer.

  8. I’m just guessing- but maybe Sean actually has a life, and doesn’t spend all of his waking moments on this website, like it appears that a few people on this website do. He has a family- as I’m sure many of you do- maybe you will do your selves a favor and get up from your computer and say something to your spouse and kids.

  9. DB,

    Back at you. What are you doing wasting your time reading, none the less commenting, on this blog? What about your spouse and kids, or have they left you?

    Would it be better if we sat in front of the TV and watched the game like many people do? I guess it would because then our elected officials could do what ever they wanted after winning without any comments from the peons that elected them. Sorry, not going to happen. Some of us care enough about the Republic to share our thoughts and views with others. Occasionally we even dare to speak up about significant legislation and have something to say about the issues of the day. An amazing concept for sure.

  10. Hey, I’m watching the games too! But let’s face it, with the speed Sean Noble responds to the posts that he is featured in, we can rest assured that he is regularly reading this blog. He’s simply dodging the question regarding the Arizona GOP.

  11. Capitol Observer says

    Sean sees himself as the next ex-congressional staffer/congressman.

    He is an expert soft-shoe tap dancer: look at how conservative I am — now don’t look while I garner support from the big money establishment interests who have no core issue commitments to bother them. He has a track record for more than a decade of consistently doing this dance to the detriment of the Party activists.

    DB, you must be psychic to be able to determine the home life of people over the internet. Get over yourself. Discuss the issue or be silent.

  12. Sometimes partisan politics is superseded by personal relationships. This confuses voters. Confused voters identify less and less with parties and more and more with…voting as an Independent. Reap what you sow.

  13. Altmann has made a name for himself in his own neighborhood as a disruptive force who completely misunderstands the concept of representative government. He will not serve the citizens of Phoenix well, regardless of how conservative you are. He is running for the “power” not for ideology. He is also closely associated with the Fire Department (and Union).

  14. Cap Observer,

    Well put. Can Sean say “Lisa Atkins,” (CD-2 GOP primary, 2002.)


    Good point. That is why Kyl and Shadegg should work toward party unity and stop getting involved in LD and non-partisan municipal elections where their actions only serve to further split the party!

  15. John,

    You say Altmann is running for the power not for the ideology? Does that mean that you believe that Baier is running for ideology?

    Let’s see, to name a few for Baier – Napolitano, Gordon, Shadegg, Noble, Bayless, Barnes, Bidwell, Bilsten, Cantelme, Coughlin, Davis, Dorn, Fose, Gullett, Hull, Johnson, Kaites, Molera, Nava, Norton, Nowakowski, Pfister, Romley, Scutari, Simplot, Willems, Woods, United Phoenix Firefighters, Phoenix Chamber, AFL-CIO, Arizona General Contractors and the Repugnant.

    Since you indicate that ideology should be the determining factor, what ideology do these supporters of Baier all represent? Let me guess. Control of the process regardless of party.

    Well, for some that is an ideology and we expect that she will adhere to that ideology if elected.

  16. Lee –

    Huh? What I’m responding to is those on this blog that think that Altmann is ideologically closer to them than Baier is. I don’t think he’s conservative at all. It is wrong for conservatives to be manipulated by those that wear the mantle only for show.

    You just named about 20 people who have nothing necessarily in common with each other besides the fact they are familiar. Are you being critical of the Phoenix Chamber which represents about 1200 small, medium and large businesses in the region? Who exactly do you think should be represented by the new Councilperson. I think we all get a say. Altmann’s history is contrary to that of an open, participative process. He should just keep resuscitating people all over town, as it appears that has become the strength of his campaign.

  17. John,

    First, your posting #13 makes the statement that Altmann is closely associated with the Fire Department – closer that Baier to Kahn?

    Secondly, you said that Altmann’s supporters were going to be disappointed because he wouldn’t measure up on ideology. The ideology conservatives fear the most is the ideology that supports the centralization of power within a select few.

    To further respond to Post #15, as far as the Chamber is concerned, most of the businesses are members for reasons other than political endorsements. Most chamber members are not even aware of who are the members of the committee that makes these endorsements.

    I am critical of any organization that is working against over three quarters of the people of Arizona as proven in polls AND in the voting booths. The common thread with the people I named is they all have a track record of supporting the centralization of power to themselves and their political friends. That is undeniable when looked at by any independent evaluaton.

  18. Of course it’s deniable. Because it is in no way measureable. It is your subjective opinion and you are entitled to it. You completely misread my postings. I think it is unsound logically to criticize Baier for her closeness to Kahn (although I’ve certainly known brothers and sisters who aren’t), when Altmann is certainly a supporter of firefighters as well — and advertises as such. If you like Altmann’s stated positions and his profile, fine. But I believe him to be disingenuous. Bottom line: you oppose centralization of power in a select few interests. I agree. I don’t find Altmann to be an antidote to that.

  19. He may not be an antidote, but she enhances it. You can’t have the support of ALL the central avenue – congressional – lobbyist power elitists and claim to not be in league with them.

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  21. Shadegg did us well. while not perfect he was a true chap for us in AZ. i got to know Sean and i wll support him all the way. He is a true warrior for us here in AZ. He is not a BS politics as normal guy.

    Sean, please run!!

  22. I also added your site in my rss reader great post.

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