Whip way the senate Republicans?

kyl.jpg

The Arizona blogosphere tripped over itself today covering the news of Jon Kyl’s candidacy for the Senate Republican Whip. Even the left leaning Daniel’s News & Views backs Kyl (although for different reasons than most.) Our favorite coverage of today’s news comes from Seeing Red AZ (it was not so much the text of the story as the title that stood out.)

Much of the coverage has focused on what a great conservative is Kyl. We would beg to differ (his American Conservative Rating for 2006 was 92.) We would like to recommend some alternatives to the whip position who are actually stronger conservatives. Senator Inhofe of Oklahoma is well spoken and had an ACU rating of 100 for 2006 and 2005. He has been in the senate since 1994. DeMint of South Carolina also had a 2006 score of 100 and would be an excellent choice. One more good option might be John Thune of South Dakota, also 100 in 2006. Both he and DeMint were first elected to the senate in 2004 so the advantage might go the Inhofe for his length of service.

These other senators have the added attraction of not having worked directly to undermine the efforts of the state Republican Party in Arizona. Best of luck to all.

We have not done a thorough investigation but our current information indicates none of the people above like to hang out in public rest rooms tapping their feet or hire call girls while preaching about family values. See, the party is making progress.


Comments

  1. 92% is a very good rating.

    Check out the descriptions on the ratings from the ACU. One of the votes was for allowing some Hawaiian bill to be fillibustered (big deal; the other was an amendment on border fencing that was crushed.
    so, you disagree on Kyl on 2 out of the 25 votes that the ACU chose as important.

    Here are the votes that the ACU used. Let me know if the following issues aren’t important to you:

    1. Alito Nomination
    2. Asbestos Trust Fund
    3. Tax Reconciliation
    4. Tax Cut Rules
    5. Fiscal 2007 Budget Resolution–Energy Funding
    6. Spending Limitations
    7. Earmark Definitions
    8. Pork Barrel Spending
    9. Medical Malpractice
    10. Tax Reconciliation
    11. Small Business Health Plans
    12. Immigration Overhaul—Social Security Credit
    13. Immigration Overhaul—Voter Identification
    14. Immigration Reform
    15. Same-Sex Marriage Ban Constitutional Amendment
    16. Death Tax Repeal
    17. Native Hawaiian Government
    18. Iran Sanctions
    19. Iraq Amnesty Policy
    20. Minimum Wage
    21. Iraq Troop Withdrawal
    22. Border Fencing
    23. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
    24. Parental Notification of Abortion
    25. Gulf of Mexico Offshore Oil and Gas Drilling
    [#17 & #22 are the TWO votes that Sonoran Alliance feels make Kyl un-worthy.]

  2. Actually, its just one writer who feels that way, not all of SA… I’m actually glad to see Kyl moving up because it may mean that he’ll consider staying longer. So long as he never needed the Arizona GOP and its members again, he wasn’t exactly responsive. Now, if he’s thinking me might run again someday, he might return to his roots.

    And a 92 is actually a very good score…

  3. Fair enough. I’d rather Kyl focus on national issues (that’s what he was elected to do).

  4. The entire Congressional Delegation was not supportive of the current party leadership during the campaign. Not just Kyl or McCain, but everyone of the R’s endorsed the “other” candidate. The relationship is cold, if at all.

    The only reason the other Senators mentioned have not “worked directly to undermine the efforts of the state Republican Party in Arizona” is because they are from other states. If they, too, were from Arizona it stands a very good chance that they would have been the victim of either the always supportive LD 11 chair, the well publicized party fav county chair, or if they are really lucky… made national news with our state chair.

    Now that is real solid positive party leadership. Who wouldn’t want to be a part of that?

    While I am not a lobbyist, I do spend time in DC and it usually involves meetings with members of Congress from other states, very rarely Arizona. I also meet with party members from other states in the process. The attitudes and behaviors of our party leadership is looked upon with absolute disbelief. Not based on my portrayal but the perception others have developed on their own. Kyl is not undermining anybody; he is a strong, responsible Republican doing what is best when put in a very difficult situation.

    Jon Kyl is well respected and admired for his hard work, decency, knowledge, and consistent dedication to the party, which is more than can be said of some others who consider themselves party leaders.

  5. One good thing about Sonoran Alliance is that there are several writers with various opinions. All our writers are not necessarily in lock step with one another. For the record, I remain a strong supporter of Kyl although I let him know when I disagree with him. So the beauty of AZ Gnat’s post is that it is a true north posting that allows us to work out our differences while remaining true to principles. I personally thing Jon Kyl as Senate Whip would be one of the best things that could happen for Arizona’s political influence. He has my support in this endeavor.

  6. DSW,

    Perhaps others will read your comments and feel the are now allowed to support Senator Kyl, also. The usual direction of SA being he lost all support and credibility last spring. Your position is refreshing.

    Whatever your personal beef with our Senators, no other state has both Senators with such outstanding respect across party lines and across the country.

    MA has two well-known but not so well-respected Senators, CA same story. Trent Lott is certainly well-known and well-respected but Thad Cochran, while holding some very important committee seats and extremely influential on the hill, is a virtual unknown outside of the south. Maybe CT and IL, but that is about it.

    This serves Arizona beyond the notoriety and pork.

  7. Friends…… I rise to speak on behalf of our friend Jon Kyl from the great state of Arizona.

    When Jon Kyl’s memoirs are written someday they will recall that it was his steady leadership, his patient behind the scenes work, his fairness and his excellent global view of the political scene that led to his success in leading the GOP back to a majority in the US Senate and how he worked hard with a Republican president beginning in 2008 ( & beyond ) to keep America safe and prosperous.

    Senator Kyl is the sort of person America has always looked to in our history when we needed someone to influence the course of our nation. Mr Kyl will make a great Whip and as he grows in his position he will continue to be good for the interests of Arizonans.

    Some may wish to argue about how Jon Kyl has voted on this bill or that but NO ONE can ever win a debate saying he does not represent the finest conservative credentials in the US Senate. That is why he will be elected by his peers. They know of his persuasion & knowledge. When Mr Kyl comes calling you had better get in line with him on the issues of the day .

    I remember a fund raiser for the senator I attended in early 2006. With about 1000 or so in the room he quietly explained what he had accomplished for Arizona over the prior few years in the Senate. What I marveled at was literally no one in that great hall had much of a clue all of the great work he had done for us. One of his many successes was a water bill that will guarantee Arizona’s water supply for decades to come. This bill is perhaps equal to the CAP on what water means for Arizona’s future growth .Jon Kyl has ALWAYS been Arizona’s work horse and has never been a show horse.

    Let Jon Kyl lead……….He will make Arizona proud !

    Bruce Ash
    National Committeeman

  8. Yes, yes the senator has done so much for Arizona. After 20 years in congress the senator has secured the border, provided for federal reimbursement for the cost of illegal immigration on local Arizona communities, healed any rifts within the party by being a fair broker, and reduced the size of government and the national debt.

    Before you all get too worked up Kyl probably does not even have any opposition for party whip. I never stated that he should not get the position, only that there were more conservative senators. Sorry to have gotten everyone all worked up. I guess if Daniel Patterson can endorse Kyl so can I. Go Jon Kyl, whip them into shape!

  9. Thus illustrates the inherent problem with illegal immigration as an issue. No one is saying it isn’t important – it definitely is. However, as a result of this one issue, we have many on this website who are all too willing to throw both Senator Kyl and Congressman Flake under the bus at a moment’s notice. Notice, I didn’t mention McCain. McCain has betrayed conservatives on any number of levels. Kyl and Flake, on the other hand, have been absolute superstars on spending issues in Congress. Perhaps it’s tough to understand the importance of this for some, but what you have in these two members of Congress are arguably two of the very best fiscal conservatives this country has seen in many, many years. Yet because they may not fit some people’s views on immigration, you are willing to throw them into the same category as Democrats. Very unfortunate.

  10. Gee, I hope I never get on az gnat’s bad side. There would be pics of me all over the internet…with my eyes closed.

  11. Despite the elitist, condescending, and supercilious jabs at the grass roots leadership by Ann, the quintessential fawning sycophant of the Republican princes, it seems to be that many of the every day Republicans get it now. They have been sold down the river by the princes for a few pieces of silver.

    Just a couple of rebuts to some points made on this web site which seems to have become an adoration chapel for the worship of our congressional delegation.

    If we don’t triumph over the invasion of illegals, the Democrats will have a power base which will make the Republican Party inconsequential. The United States will be one big California. Bush, Kyl, McCain and Flake may yet have their names forever attached to this ignominious feat.

    A few bucks saved by fighting ear marks to impress constituents hardly makes up for the trillions the Comprehensive Immigration Legislation would have cost, nor the trillions the Flake endorsed homosexual advocacy bill will cost government and business in regulation and compliance. Need I mention the loss of religious freedom that will befall our churches. The advocacy of these bills is hardly fiscally conservative.

    The congressional delegation for years has not been supportive of the Republican base. Therefore, the base elected the current party leadership who are responding to their opinions. The congressional delegation chose to ignore the base and eventually paid the cost. You will have to admit there had to be huge dissatisfaction at the base to defeat the hand picked candidates of the delegation and the delegation’s machine.

    You mention the betrayal of McCain. What does it say about the character of the individuals in the delegation who lock-step endorse such a man?

  12. cactus wren says

    ILLEGAL immigration is THE most important issue to me – and I vote accordingly. The repercussions of decisions made (or not made) will have a far larger and longer impact on this country than the war in Iraq.

    You can’t effectively address other issues, from the environment to education to transportation to social security until immigration policy is addressed.

    How many of you would be silly enough to plan a party for someone, make the budget, arrange for transportation, order the menu, etc, before you knew if 2 or 200 guests would be attending?

    As an Arizonan living near the border, I feel Kyl betrayed me. I already knew Gadfly McCain doesn’t give a rat’s patootie about the people of AZ, but Kyl was a disheartening blow.

    Several of you say it would be “great” for Arizona for Kyl to become Minority Whip. OK… tell me how. How would I, as a common citizen benefit?

    All I can see is that Kyl can expect a lot more money in his campaign coffers from all sorts of “interested parties”… and ya’ know… to me that just doesn’t seem like much of a benefit to anyone but Kyl. Oh, I suppose some political hacks and bootlickers will be offered cushy jobs, but what about the rest of us???

    Yes, he’s shown he has some wonderful skills, but I’m of the opinion than anyone willing to snuggle up to Ted Kennedy has got a deep character flaw. Kennedy left Mary Jo Kopechne to drown – and both McCain and Kyl think Teddy is an OK guy. Makes me want to barf.

    “Friends…… I rise to speak on behalf of our friend Jon Kyl from the great state of Arizona.”

    Brucie, ewwwwww… that line comes from a grade B movie. Matter of fact, most of your post is over the top. If you plan on asking me for any campaign contributions… Forget it – you sound a might too phony for me.

  13. Mr. Haney,

    Continue to delude yourself that 2 votes was a mandate by the masses. Continue to spread the gospel of might equals right. Continue to opine about that which you have no understanding beyond your limited perception. All are your right.

    Call me whatever you will. Call those who oppose your politics of negativity and divisiveness by pejorative names. Call yourself and those who succumb to the virus of vitriol unique holders of the truth. It does not make it true and again, it is your right and I will defend it without question.

    Continue and you will be calling Gabby “Congresswoman”, Terry or Phil “Governor”, Janet “Senator” and Hillary “Madame President”. Now, it’s getting personal!

    Somehow I think you would find great joy in that if you could find a way to say, “I told you so” and blame it on those you so clearly have no patience for or understanding of; all the while the absolute responsibility is held by those like you who would rather divide and lose than mend and prevail.

  14. Ann, you must be the quintessential liberal as well. They are the folks who are experts at accusing others of what they practice themselves.

  15. Rob-
    Do you know Ann? By the name calling I would assume you do. I have never read anything she has written that would qualify her as a quintessential liberal. After your last comment, seems to me you could be the quintessential liberal.

  16. Ann,

    Rob certainly uses some direct language but delusional? His statement “You will have to admit there had to be huge dissatisfaction at the base to defeat the hand picked candidates of the delegation” seems very solid. Am I missing something? For the delegates to elect Pullen after Trent Franks spoke for Lisa was amazing. It would have been newsworthy even if Pullen lost by 10 votes. With the establishment behind Lisa she should have walked away with the election. The dissatisfaction is indeed real for half of the party base to oppose the recommendation of the most conservative among the delegation.

  17. Some of these comments are so ignorant I have to speak up.

    Az Gnat:

    This was your quote: “These other senators have the added attraction of not having worked directly to undermine the efforts of the state Republican Party in Arizona…”.

    First off, Kyl didn’t undermine as you put it. He supported another candidate for party chair. That was his perogative. As far as we all know, (because the Chair is bashing them), the entire delegation is supporting him as the victor.

    Rob Haney:

    You are the most bigoted person I have ever read on this site. I don’t see Ann as a sycophant at all. She is choosing to support our Republican delegation period. I also have seen her be supportive of this Party leadership as well. Does that mean she is a lap-dog for Pullen? Far from it! If I were Pullen, I would rein you in. You are embarrassing the Arizona Republican Party. It’s no wonder people are stopping their contributions to the State Party and giving now to the candidates of their choice.

    Here’s a message for you Randy Pullen! The minute you get rid of the Haney’s and other sycophants that won’t support our Republican delegation will be when money will come back to you in droves. Mine included.

    As for you,my dear Cactus Wren. If you only knew a little about the process.

    Let’s say you were down at the legislature and Speaker Jim Weiers asked you to head up a major committee and work with the opposition (i.e. the democrats) to come up with a solution. You took that job. The democrats meanwhile can’t stand you and see you as a no good low-life, scheming Republican, only out for yourself. They ask Speaker Weiers to name a new chairman to this very important committee. He says no. It will still be Cactus Wren. He tells the dems they have 4 people on the committee and the republicans have 6. Name you own people.

    That is exactly how it goes down in politics. As far as I can remember, Harry Reid is the Majority Leader in the Senate and has the privilege to any name any person, he gosh-darn pleases. It sucks!!! Of all the worst people to have to work with but nasty Ted Kennedy. I agree with you. But it’s not our choice because we lost our majority and have no say in Kennedy as the pick. So get over it.

    The only remedy for us is to elect more Republicans in the House and the Senate as well as pick a Republican that can beat every democrat opponent for the White House!!!

    (That is another subject for another post: who is the best person to beat the democrat in 2008.)

    We should be grateful that someone like Senator Kyl, who is the complete opposite of Kennedy, was chosen by Trent Lott, the Minority Leader, to keep watch and try to figure this issue out. He did the best he could. I, too, was leary of what would come out of that group, but when I read what Senator Kyl came up with as a first draft, I must commend him for listening to everybody and placing a securing border at the top of the list. If we had only stayed with it and let them tweek it more, we might have a solution today.

    But no!!! Many of you had to say not only, throw out the dirty bathwater, but throw the baby out too!!

    So now we are ALL living with an unsecure border while thousands more illegal immigrants come over the border.

    Shame on you crazy people!!! You may have won that one battle this summer, but YOU lost us the war. How? you ask. Because it shut down talks.

    What we first saw out of that committee was a FIRST DRAFT, people!

    We could have really made a significant mark if we had been supportive of the stuff we wanted and also had found things we could urge them to change even more. Instead, we said NO to everything, including securing the border.

    That is what you did Rob Haney and Cactus Wren!! Your supporters should see you for who you really are. You are people who don’t really care about securing the border, but rather, securing your own political necks.

    YOU ARE THE REASON OUR BORDER IS NOT SECURE THIS VERY MOMENT!!!

    Godspeed Randy Pullen. You have your work cut out for you.

  18. ForREAL,

    I did not mean to imply that Kyl was undermining the state party but supporting Lisa. To be more specific sources indicate that Kyl is currently working to undermine the state party at this time. Sorry that I am so ignorant.

  19. I did not mean to imply you were ignorant. That sentence should have been underneath my comments to you.
    I am sorry for that. By ignorant, I specifically meant the comments of Rob Haney and Cactus Wren.

    I am sorry to have lumped you in with them. I meant no harm.

  20. ForREAL,

    Thanks for the clarification.

  21. Gnat,

    I would not say he is delusional but under the spell of his own self-talk.

    There were so many factors that played into the vote, it is not correct to say it was all based on dissatisfaction with the establishment that led to the split vote. The more correct portrayal is that there was, and continues to be, a split in the vision of party leadership; specifically a strong disregard for the actions like those displayed by Mr. Haney in this thread. Call names, question legitimacy as a conservative, talk in circles, and threaten being the victim of such should you not drink the kool-aid. Tactics intended to prevent the crowd from seeing the emperor has no clothes. There was more than a little fear that the Haney, Tuttle, Pullen party would be divisive, ineffective, and lead the party to a point of minority status.

    Very obviously the relatively late arrival of an opponent to Pullen, when he had been actively pursuing and obligating votes since summer, should have been an extreme disadvantage. There was huge concern about his style, motivation, and the already ugly actions of some in current leadership positions that led to the desire for an alternative for the greater good of the entire party over factional bickering that may have had some foundation but was not the end all of issues. More than a few names were out there, so “handpicked” is not accurate. Lisa rose to the top. Had the delegation supported Pullen, would he have been handpicked or just deserving of the endorsement?

    I would offer that for the entire delegation, including the most conservative who spoke on her behalf, to support Lisa when Pullen had been actively campaigning for so long is very telling. Additionally, for 2 votes short of a tie to vote in opposition to the candidate who was front and center for months and had strong arm tactics on his side, does not offer a picture of overwhelming support for Pullen by anyone.

    The point in that is not that Lisa is good and Randy is bad. We must realize that as a party we have differences, but it does not have to be a mortal wound. If it is the continued behavior of the Haneyites, et al to rip and tear, and castigate all who do not walk lock step, then be prepared to lose and lose big.

  22. To all……..

    This would seem to be the perfect time to speak up again in support of ALL Republicans who work on behalf of our party! I may not always agree with everyone’s perspective but I am glad to have your passion as part of our team.

    We can debate. We can disagree. In the end ,however, all of us have a vested interest in the future of our country. The simple way we do this is to elect REPUBLICANS locally , state wide and on a federal level.

    Will we always agree with who we’ve elected? Probably not but on their worst day Republicans are better than ANY democrat.

    We have been on a soapbox over the last year or so advocating for issues we believe in and now my fellow Republicans it is time for us to win an election. Perhaps one of the most important in recent times. We must do it by banding together (irrespective of what we may not agree on but mindful of what we share in common), raising enough money to get our message out, recruiting the right candidates and then supporting our candidates all through the process right up to next election day.

    It’s going to take a massive effort–money,manpower,intellect,strategy and the will to win notwithstanding our selective differences.

    We will win in 2008 when we REGISTER VOTERS. RECRUIT PC’s. RAISE MONEY. GET VOLUNTEERS. WORK OUR STRATEGY. EXPRESS OUR POSITIVE OUTLOOK FOR AMERICA’S FUTURE & OUT WORK OUR OPPONENTS.

    Cactus Wren………am I over the top? Maybe. But one thing for sure I believe we agree upon is that when we are all committed to working for our candidates the same way our friends the democrats are dedicated to working for their candidates we will achieve success. Give democrats no quarter as they show us none themselves.

    I hope you will join our GOP candidates who are standing for election, the county chairs, PC’s and some very good state party folks who are working for victory, as well as all of the volunteers from all over Arizona and me in this effort.

    Yours in a Republican Victory in 2008,

    Bruce Ash
    National Committeeman

  23. Ann,

    Just for the sake of discussion I will stipule that Rob goes overboard in demanding support for party orthodoxy. But did not Kyl and Shadegg also go overboard in party disloyalty by endorsing Maria Baier, who openly endorsed Napolitano?

    Let me also, again for the sake of discussion, stipulate that Pullen made a few blunders early on in his time as chairman. But have he and the state party not been focused on campaign schools, voter registration, setting up separate accounts to fund legislative races, fundraising, etc? All the things that they should be focusing on. How come Bruce Ash, who clearly supports Kyl, also can be supportive of Pullen but lots of other people refuse to work with Randy? You don’t think it has anything to do with ego do you?

  24. I’m sorry… I don’t understand the ego point. It could be I am currently working on two different computers, can’t find my glasses, have 2 phones going, and really want to be outside! Please explain a little more…(Is it happy hour yet?)

    I readily admit a change in the attitude of the chairman, his current blog post, http://azgop.typepad.com/ , speaks very highly of Senator Kyl. A far cry from his actions of the spring or of the sentiments expressed by some folks on this thread.

    The continual complaints about the delegation undermining the party, selling out, blah,blah,blah, does nothing to improve our position but only serves to make a certain faction feel empowered, if in only their minds, while doing grave damage to our party.

    As for Maria Baier, I do not like it at all that she endorsed Janet, but does that disqualify her from any further service? Does it eliminate her from being the superior candidate? Which is the greater insult, to endorse a Dem or actively and vocally demean a Republican?

  25. Ann,

    My point about ego is if Pullen is now working hard to do what he should as party chairman why can’t Kyl show a little support? I think Kyl’s ego was bruised and he is having trouble getting over it. That is my opinion but it would be best for all Republicans in Arizona if Pullen and Kyl could reach some kind of understanding or at least a truce.

    Sure Maria Baier has every right to run for public office. My question, which you did not address, is was it really necessary or prudent for Kyl and Shadegg to publicly endorse her?

  26. Bruce,

    Thank you for your eloquent comments. They are very helpful to hear coming from the Party. You are winning some of us over.

    Now you need to work from within your new “party elite”, Rob Haney, Lyle Tuttle et al, to convince them to support McCain or Guiliani if they happen to be the Republican Nominee in 2008.

    You heard me, Rob and Lyle. YOU are the party elite now. You might want to watch how you treat others.

  27. Ann,

    One more question.

    -Soliciting for gay sex in an airport bathroom stall
    -Using the services of a prostitute while running on about family values
    -Massive deficit spending while controlling both chambers of congress and the white house
    -Taking bribes while in office and serving prison time for corruption
    -Courting and then chasing after pages right after they turn 18

    Now please tell me who is “doing grave damage to our party.”

  28. WOW! Did yo miss lunch? Why not throw Watergate in for good measure but more importantly why mention any of it at all? As far as I know not one of our congressional members have acted in the way you list above, we have a strong fiscal record, with the exception of Mr. Renzi, have not had the slightest blemish, and have garnered respect beyond the borders of our state.

    OK…as for Maria Baier. How far does the arm of true political correctness go? Is an endorsement bad but a donation OK. Is a name on a web site bad but open and angry actions against Republicans OK? Who decides? Do we have an office of protocol within the GOP and if so, who makes the rules and are they consistent?

    If they saw her as the best for the job, and saw the job as vital and important, then it could be that they felt it was the absolutely neccessary thing to do.

  29. Oh yeah…the ego thing. Jon Kyl is principled and determined and I would not interpret his behavior to be anything other than that. He knows what is important and what isn’t. Considering he will likely be unopposed for the number two spot in the US Senate, I doubt if he must guard his delicate ego but understands he has earned respect through years of careful and dedicated service. There is a difference, but those who focus on personal ego have a hard time seeing past themselves to understand.

    Recent FEC filings are not so good for the state party. He clearly is not the only one who is holding out.

    No pointed meaning, just a response to the question.

  30. Watergate was about 30 years ago. Everything I listed is within the last 24 months. Sorry, I did forget Renzi but thanks for reminding us of his “blemish.” I did not mean to touch a nerve but you brought up the subject of “doing grave damage to our party.”

    I will grant that Kyl and Shadegg are free to endorse whomever they want as long as Ron Haney and LD 11 are free to censure whomever they want. As you said “who makes the rules and are they consistent?”

    Great, the fundraising numbers for the state party are down. Of course they are down because Kyl and many others have been working to undermine the state party. Who does that help and who does that hurt?

    Yes, I am sure Kyl is much too busy to have an ego. I hope he enjoys being in the minority for a while longer because the senate is not looking too good for Republicans 08. That too is probably Haney and Pullen’s fault.

  31. cactus wren says

    ForREAL,
    The bill was BS.
    “Tweaking”?? No amount of “tweaking” could have ever made that into a good bill.

    If there was a baby in the bathwater it was already dead and needed to be buried.
    And it rightfully was.

    BAD legislation should not be passed.
    Those who think it should, just to say “We Did Something” are part of the problem, not part of the solution, and should be ashamed of themselves.

    The border needs to be secured FIRST.
    Other related issues can be addressed AFTER that is done.

    Don’t tell me it’s my fault the border isn’t secured. I have no hope the Democrats (with a few exceptions) will support that – so I can only rely on Republicans.

    The problem is we’ve got a President who doesn’t give a fig about Border Security (or Border Patrol agents) or what open borders do to the communities who live near them. That’s the person who is ultimately responsible. I voted for him. Twice. It looks like a mistake to me now.

    Even worse, we have a couple of AZ Senators who don’t give a fig about what their constituents want. It’s also THEIR responsibily, not yours, not mine.

    I’ll be surprised of McCain carries AZ in the primary. I won’t vote for him, that’s for sure.

    As far as ignorance, you are displaying a lot of ignorance about the average voter the party relies on.

    Here’s an example:
    If by some fluke McCain finds himself on the national ticket, either as Pres or VP, I will NOT vote Republican. That’s the only way I can make my voice heard; but I fear the party big wigs are Stone Deaf and Too Stupid to figure out what went wrong if the White House is lost. So be it.

    There are Republicans whose voting records on many issues I fully support – but the border and illegal immigration trumps everything for me; so if the candidate is not steadfast on those, he will no longer get my vote just because he is a Republican.

    I’m not the only one who feels this way. There are also PLENTY of Independents and Democrats who share my view on the border and illegal immigration. The Republican party can either get their votes and win, or slit its own throat.


    And, yes, Bruce, you tend to go over the top. I’m not part of the choir and I find those who want to preach to me irritating.

    You want me to be blindly supportive. That malarky plea may work for Democrats, but it doesn’t go over so well with many Republicans.
    You need to figure that out.

    I may very well volunteer for an individual candidate and yes, I’m aware there are at least some at the Pima County headquarters I could happily work with.. but not all.

  32. Gnat,

    Do you honestly think so little of the typical R donor as to think they cannot have an authentic opinion and are nothing more than puppets to Jon Kyl who hold all the strings? What a pitiful picture you paint. Who needs an ego when given so much power by folks like you.

    Either you are right and the huge majority of R donors cannot think for themselves and look to Sen. Kyl for all direction and the state party is helpless without him or you are wrong and it is that many share the same view of the party leadership and tendencies to be divisive; such as pointing out the flaws within the party while never addressing their own.

  33. cactus wren says

    I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how the average Arizona citizen will benefit with Kyl as Whip…

  34. Senator Kyl would be an excellent Whip and I’m hopeful that he has smooth sailing to the position. While I disagreed on an issue that has been debated, and debated, and debated, and debated, on this board, I am still proud that I volunteered and worked as hard as I did to help ensure his re-election last year and would do it again in a heartbeat. I don’t consider myself “blindly supportive” and I hope I didn’t sound too “preachy”.

  35. cactus wren says

    LOL, no, you didn’t TEEJ.
    Bruce could learn from you.

    So.. can you tell me how the average AZ citizen would benefit?

  36. I am not a party insider as some of you apparently are, but I can tell you as an average voter I have absolutely had it with Kyl. I don’t care if his ACU rating is 99.9%–you don’t get a “mulligan” when it comes to amnesty (and even if you did, he would have already blown that when he came back for a second try last summer). His 4 page response to all of us that opposed the bill was full of lies and insults to our intelligence.

    Even if I could get past the immigration issue, I would have trouble supporting Kyl because he is too weak. He may be fighting hard behind the scenes (hopefully as hard as he fought against us on amnesty), but I think we need someone who will do it in a much more visible way. With loudmouths like Boxer, Kennedy, Reid, Schumer, Durbin, and so many others on the other side, we need someone who will take them on and expose them as the incoherent fools that they are. Kyl won’t even mention them by name or by party. He simply refers to them calmly as the “other party,” and pretends they are engaging in civilized debate. I’m not saying we need to fight dirty; we just need someone who will fight back.

  37. Ann,

    You are correct that the fund raising numbers for the state party are not only about what Kyl does or doesn’t do. Sorry if I gave that impression. One piece of advice though. If Kyl is so busy with other things and does not have anything positive to say maybe he should keep his opinions to himself.

    The state party is not the only Republican organization having trouble with fundraising. The NRCC is basically broke. Is that Haney or Pullen’s fault? Is there a chance that certain elected officials have debased the Republican brand by being corrupt, advocating positions unpopular with Republican voters, and overspending hard-earned taxpayer dollars? Are some Republican leaving the party and register Independent because of Pullen or because they no longer see the importance of staying with the party?

  38. Gnat,

    We really should be sleeping… (I have to work tonight so I can go see Fred tomorrow…oh no, does that sound sycophantish?)

    The story you linked in your post took a single sentence and used it as the lead, then went on to talk about everything else. When I read it, I honestly kept waiting for the rest of the statement. But, even if that is all there was, is his statement any different than Haney railing against Kyl when he is an LD chair or Tuttle and his yellow button? The rules should go both ways. If that were the case, I would have no dispute with your position. Bad acts were a part of the Haney, Tuttle crowd before last January and that Pullen was a compadre’ with his own past didn’t give a feeling of “kumbaya” going in. ‘Nuf said.

    As for the second paragraph, I agree with you completely as to the state of the party on a national level. Certainly, no one is to blame for what they can’t control. However, they should be accountable for what they can. Excuses serve the person making them and rarely anyone else.

    All of those things were known when Randy did all he could to be where he is. If he isn’t up to the job, he should get out of the way. If he is, live with your choices and do the best you can. If this is it….we’re in trouble.

  39. cactus wren says

    Poison,
    Looks like the party insiders have NO CLUE; they prefer their petty bickering to addressing the comments either you or I have made.

    It’s a real mistake for them to ignore us. A voter scorned is not much different than a woman scorned. Another lesson the insiders will learn.

    Maybe you and I will meet some day. I hope so. We may already know folks in common. The border battle is not over and I am committed to it, even though too many in our party are not.

  40. It really comes down to integrity – or the lack of it. Jon Kyl campaigned and got endorsements based on his claim to be opposed to amnesty, met with party grass roots leaders and looked them in the eye and gave his personal pledge to be opposed to amnesty in any form — WHILE MEETING IN SECRET WITH TED KENNEDY TO TRY TO FORCE AMNESTY DOWN THE THROATS OF US ALL.

    Once a person has proven that his word is no longer of any value by repeatedly misleading and outright lying on the most important issue facing this country today, it stains everything else about him and makes it impossible to trust him on any issue anytime.

    Jon Kyl and whip may go together, I am just not sure *** edited – please be very careful about anything that could even be perceived as suggesting physical harm ***.

    As to Rob Haney, as soon as the people who are opposed to him do as much work in building the party as he does, they MIGHT have some credibility in their attempts to denigrate him. Until then, they should spend their energy in volunteer service instead of bitchin’ because they lost to a harder worker.

    WISHin’ won’t ever get it done in the Republican Party.

  41. Ben,

    Does hard work relate to entitlement?

  42. Entitlement to what? Entitlement to respect yes. Entitlement to input, yes. Entitlement to access, yes. The elected officials sure want respect, input, and access from Rob when they are running for office every six years.

    In addition, Rob has earned at least as much entitlement as a person who was never an elected precinct committeeman prior to being entitled to a high position in the Party because of the promise of future financial contributions.

    Having put in hundreds of hours volunteering and financially suporting both the county and state organizations, supporting financially and with hundreds of hours of volunteer time with community service organizations in addition to being the most successful district chairman in the history of the Republican Party in the State of Arizona for the recruitment of precinct committeemen does merit respect from the very elected officials who have benefitted from those efforts.

    Rob and Marne have been treated shabbily by the very people who seek the Haneys’ help when they are running for office. Those officials have acted in an unethical and unchristian manner.

    Lastly, those in the Party who have NEVER made the sacrifices that the Haneys have made, who may or may not have served as much as one term as a district officer and then retired to a negative blogging career certainly do not have the credentials to judge the Haneys.

  43. Ben,

    I do not disagree with a thing you said. It is what you didn’t say where I have a problem.

    I’m not sure whom you were referencing in the last paragraph…but if it is me, I think you may consider I am someone that I am not.

    I am the person who goes to the state party to stuff envelopes, make phone calls, and recruit others to do the same…while people who would judge others for being elitist walk by and never say as much as a hello. I have done that for years, been a PC on and off, depending on where I lived, since the 80’s. I have witnesses countless others, just like me, treated like a commodity. Many volunteers were giving all they had and would have given all they can considering their situation yet we would never presume to develop and promote strife and division within the party. I am not a sycophant, but I was taught to be considerate and believe respect given is respect received.

  44. I was referencing everyone who fit those or similar criteria. I know of no one who has done more as a volunteer grass roots couple than the Haneys. It is time to hold accountable those who run for office and get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars with the world’s best retirement, health, and other benefits. You at least should be able to trust what they tell you face to face. Too many are untrustworthy if there is a long term personal benefit to them or their friends.

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