Stephen Moore and Tim Bee

Tim Bee’s problem is he has a Republican Majority in Name Only (MINO’s).  Liberal Republicans Carolyn Allen and Tom O’Halleran rarely support the 14 other Senate Republicans, so Bee is forced to work with Democrats and the two RINOs.

I disagree with OVD on Stephen Moore.  Moore’s point is Republicans win when they act like Republicans.  Ask Steve Huffman.  People who oppose tax cuts and want more government tend to be Democrats.  When Republicans try to spend their way to the majority, they end up crossing “a bridge to the minority”, formerly known as “the bridge to nowhere.”  Google earmarks and the 2006 election and read about the fate of big government Republicans.

If the Senate and House Republicans united and forced a fight with Napolitano on a tax cut, Napolitano would lose (of the course the AZ Republic would claim otherwise).  The upside for Bee in a potential fight against Giffords is huge.  He could claim leadership in passing tax cuts compared to Giffords who supported the Congressional Democrats budget which included a $400 billion tax increase over 5 years.


  1. Oro Valley Dad says

    Chad thank you for acknowledging that Bee does not have the best of support among all of his caucus.

    A well written post except I hope you are not trying to compare Bee with Huffman. Huffman’s shortcoming went so far beyond his liberal positions he does not make a good example. As long as you are talking about liberal Republicans try having Pete Hershberger as your lone Republican representative in the legislature.

    Sorry to have ruffled everyone’s feathers but at least we found out that someone actually does read our Saturday edition of the blog. I actually like Stephen Moore. In fact I like him so much I hope he comes to Pima County in ’08 and headlines a dinner to raise money for some of the great conservative candidates that we have down here. That would be an excellent way to get the senate to pass more tax cuts. Get out into the hinterlands a little and send a different type of senator to the capital. Sometimes it gets a little lonely being a conservative Republican in Pima County and Tim Bee is by far the best thing we have going down here among elected officials.

    Bee could try and run in CD-8 on a tax-cutting platform. Or he could tag Gabby as a blow-hard partisan do nothing Democrat while he is a skilled and effective leader capable of reaching across the isle to get things done. Given the political history of Southern Arizona I would go with the latter over the former.

  2. Bee is no Huffman. Overall, he is good, but he is a little weak on the fiscal side. I would never put him in the category of Allen and O’Halleran. He does rank third to last in the Arizona Federation of Taxpayers report card (

  3. Sonoran Truth Squad says

    Hey guys, if you’re posting in response to an already existing thread, you should post there. Not fair having us reading two separate threads just to keep up with one conversation!

  4. Oro Valley Dad says


    Talk to Chad. He started with the new post.


    There are other issues besides just taxes. For a Republicans in Southern Arizona Bee is much more than good enough. The party is deeply divided down here and amazingly Bee is able to get support from a very broad range. He probably will not have opposition in the CD-8 primary so it is more important for him to appeal to the independents who will determine the final outcome in the general.

    Hopefully CD-5 will elect a solid fiscal conservative and that will balance out any perceived imperfections from CD-8. I am worried that there are so many Republicans running and that they might damage the eventual nominee too much during the primary to win in the general. Good luck with it. We need to win back both seats.

  5. Senator Ron Gould says

    Hey Oro Dad,
    It’s lonely being a Conservative in the Senate Cacaus. It’s dark and lonely under the bus where I have been thrown.
    Senator Ron Gould

  6. Oro Valley Dad says

    Senator Gould,

    We are very sorry about how ’06 turned out. Believe me a lot of us worked overtime in LD 26 to send a strong conservative to the senate from our district.

    While you’re under the bus say hi to Collette and Randy for me.

  7. It is iresponsible and short-sighted to clamor for more tax cuts at a time when our state has pressing needs in the areas of infrastructure, health care, education and other areas critical to the quality of life in the second-fastest growing state in our union.

    Back when the argument for tax cuts had a solely fiscal basis, their justification was predicated either on the need to stimulate the economy or because rates were at a level that one could fairly label as confiscatory. For that reason, I supported the Kemp-Roth cuts in the early years of the Reagan Administration. The only cuts we should be looking at now in Arizona should serve the former purpose with regard to certain business taxes if cutting taxes would help fledgling businesses in our state’s economy.

    The cuts championed by Senator Gould and others would amount to roughly $46 per Arizonan. As with most recent tax cut proposals, they would disproportionately benefit upper income taxpayers. The loss in revenue at this time in Arizona’s history would affect (and should offend) the rest of us.

    The majority of contemporary Republicans sadly take an almost knee-jerk view of tax cuts. They also label any member of their party who deviates from their position as an apostate RINO. For my part, I view with suspicion and disdain any politician who takes a cookie cutter approach to any area of policy. Tax cut proposals should be examined comprehensively in terms of both their salutary and hurtful effects. Doing otherwise is an abdication of leadership.

  8. Rex —

    I have 4 questions for you:

    1. Name 3 three new programs created by the Arizona state government in the last 5 years. Spending has grown a whopping 65% during that time.

    2. If the tax cuts only amount to $46 per taxpayer, then why can’t those government programs live with $46 less per donor?

    3. If high tax, high government spending is so wonderful, how come people are leaving big government California and New York and coming to AZ, Texas and Nevada? Or leaving the socialist paradises of France, Germany, Cuba, etc and are desperate to get an America governed by George Bush?

    4. Can you name me 3 government programs and services that are better than the private sector alternative?

    Just a few thoughts, well brainteasers actually.

  9. Senator Ron Gould says

    Oro Dad,
    That is a different bus.

  10. Sonoran Sam says

    I’ll take a stab at answering the questions, though they were posed to Rex.

    First, the point about the “three new programs” isn’t relevant. The point is that we’re choking on traffic. It doesn’t matter if we’re driving on Oracle Road in Tucson, or any one of a dozen roads in the West and East Valley in the Phoenix area, or on I-17 from Anthem.

    Kids are going to schools that are over-crowded, and teachers are deserting those schools because of poor pay. The next generation isn’t getting the preparation they need to meet the challenges of the future.

    Arizona needs to start paying for growth when it occurs, not after the fact, when the cost of serving existing communities is prohibitive.

    So, no, Chad, state government can’t live with $46 less money from you, me and the rest of the taxpaying public.

    I’ll also note you never addressed the point by Rex that the bulk of the tax cuts being proposed by House Republicans go to the wealthy.

    People are moving here from California and New York because housing is cheap. And housing is cheap because the existing growth structure transfers the cost to everyone else to pay for infrastructure.

    College costs have more than doubled in the last four years because the Legislature refuses to meet its constitutional mandate to provide an affordable college education. And thanks to Republican corruption, college loans are becoming ever more costly, and the only people who benefit are the college loan officers who go on high-cost trips at the expense of the lenders.

    What isn’t coming to Arizona in sufficient force are well-paying jobs. Corporations are unwilling to come here because they’re facing the same infrastructure problems, and they’re looking for decent schools for themselves, for their employees, and for the future work-force they’ll need to remain competitive in a knowledge-based world economy.

    The Republican budget coming out of the House is the same tired answer. Cut spending on essential services, give tax cuts to the plutocrats, and we’ll all watch our kids race to Wal-Mart to apply for low-paying no-benefit jobs, because that’s all they’ll be prepared to get.

    Senator Gould: Sorry about being under the bus. Look around and you’ll see a few Democrats with skid marks on their backs too.

  11. Sam — Thanks for the soft balls. I love it when I can confront liberal theology with facts.

    The top 1% of income earners pays 37% of all taxes. The top 25% pays 85%. So yes, tax cuts go to the people who pay taxes. But that’s a philosophical difference. Liberals see a tax cut as a handout, conservatives understand we’re letting people keep their own money.

    Sam, you claim $4 billion in new spending “isn’t relevant” to solving all these problems? How much new govenment spending does it take?

    Over-crowded schools, poor pay and such. We’ve increased per pupil spending by 60% in 10 years. Again, how much spending does it take?

    Its worth pointing out that Napolitano has stopped new charter school and school voucher programs. Both offer higher quality schools and the construction costs are borne by the private sector. But the special interests fight tooth and nail to keep their government run monopoly.

    If housing costs are the only reason people are coming, why not go to Dayton, OH or North Platte, NE where its even cheaper? Because there are no quality jobs in those areas. Phoenix is full of high paying jobs, plus great outdoors and affordable housing. Arizonan’s income is growing faster than the big government states of California, New York and such. The fact that you do not know this means you read the Arizona Republic, not Business Week, the Wall Street Journal, Forbes or some other fact based news outlet.

    You mention essential services being cut in the state budget. Can you name one program cut in this year’s budget? How about in the last 3 budgets? Yeah, thought not.

    “Republican corruption.” Please. When the feds find $90,000 of bribes in a Republican’s freezer, you can come back on that topic.

  12. Oro Valley Dad says


    How about this. I’ll take the $46 dollars and home school my kid or send him to a private school, thus relieving the state of the burden of indoctrinating my child. You can do what every you want with the $46; including sending it back to the state.

    Rex and Sam,

    Transportation needs (roads) are very simple. Toll roads or gas taxes. Direct funding through user fees. Drive on the roads more – pay more.

    Sam, (or should I say Talton)

    Inc. Magazine does not see things the way you do. Please see our previous story – Boomtown update.

  13. Sam,

    “People are moving here from California and New York because housing is cheap. And housing is cheap because the existing growth structure transfers the cost to everyone else to pay for infrastructure.”

    That is patently not true. Impact fees, real estate taxes, etc. add up to over 20% of the cost of a new home in Pima County alone. I won’t even get into the cost per rooftop homebuilders “donate” to local school districts. Growth pays for itself–actually more. If you don’t believe me look at revenues last year for the state budget and look at them this year. They are very different–primarily because homebuilding has slowed considerably. This all applies to infrastructure if you define infrastructure as roads, police, fire, culverts, etc. If you define infrastructure to mean “social welfare spending” in California then you are right.

    Rex, get off the bitter RINO deal. I’ve read your pieces on other blogs. You’ve been a democrat for a while and you’re already trying to purge the Linda Lopez/Rios/Cajero-Bedford rebel faction. So give us a rest from the sermon, O.K.?

  14. Sonoran Truth Squad says

    I’m sure Sam and Rex are also big-time supporters of illegal aliens, who now account for 1 in 7 children in our “overcrowded” schools, costing the state literally billions of dollars every year in the related costs of education, medication and incarceration. Imagine how good our schools would be if that overcrowding was gone and teachers had time to teach something other than ESL programs? Imagine the money available for all of those “critical” programs if we were not spending more than $2 Billion this year alone on those who should not even be here.

    I’ve got an idea, let’s all chip in our $46 and build a border fence so that we can start resolving the problems in our health care systems, education programs, and on our crowded streets.

    Rex and Sam want more room on our highways? Get rid of 500,000 illegal aliens abd their cars (cleaner air can be your bonus). Rex and Sam want more room in our schools? Get rid of 500,000 illegal aliens. Rex and Sam want to ease an overburdened health care system? Get rid of 500,000 illegal aliens using emergency room for primary care.

    Do that and there will be a heck of a lot more than $46 per Arizonan available to us in tax cuts.

    And they call it “cheap” labor? I think not.

  15. Obfuscation is a sorry debating tactic; it’s been practiced a great deal in the posts above by some of the conservative Kool-Aid drinkers. Whether you blame the illegals, the RINOS or the liberals, you are still avoiding the fact that your party has been in charge of the Arizona Legislature for MANY years and held the Governor’s office until Janet came in to serve primarily as a bulwark against your excesses. Thus, your policies have had significant time to work…and they haven’t for most Arizonans.

    As for what PhxSux wrote above, he’s wrong. Although I was critical of the Dems he mentions for cutting deals with jim Weiers based primarily on sour grapes over their committee assignments, the bulk of my comments on R-Cubed dealing with that matter had to do with Janet being a dealmaker herself. Read them for yourself!

    He is right that I’ve been a Democrat for a while (three years, in fact, after being an independent from 2000-2004) and if he’s OK with losing people who didn’t vote for a Democrat for a major office (I was a Republican for 20 years!) until Bush and his crowd took over, then he is making my point for me.

  16. How have they not worked, Rex? The economy of this state is going well. It’s going well. If things are so bad why are so many people moving here (legally and illegally, as the case may be)? We are the fastest growing state in the nation. You would think listening to you that people would be leaving Arizona in droves. So is this state simply not working for Arizonans but they are too stupid to leave? Is there some sort of metaphysical crack cocaine lab that drives people to this state despite their better instincts?

    The truth is that you are wrong. The state is thriving because of low taxation and minimal regulation–the same reason why the U.S. is doing so much better than Europe.

    In addition, despite your complaining about spending, it has significantly increased year after year for education funding above the level of inflation–and I haven’t even mentioned the enormous amounts we are spending on new schools in addition to the operations budgets–and yet it will never be enough for you and the rest of the spending lobby, who make their living off of government. You cannot outspend liberals. They will never be satisfied. Ever.

    The fact that you criticized Janet proves my point. Is she becoming a DINO too? Does she need to be purged, as well? For all of your talk about purity tests within the Republican Party you all are remarkably adept at eating your own. Travel over to the cannibals at and you’ll see what I mean.

    Finally, Rex, with all the talk about how you left the Republican Party because it was so awful, here is my question for you: why were you a Republican in the first place?

  17. Since education seems to be a primary target; there were several years in the 90’s when Arizona schools did not receive any inflationary increase despite rising costs. Education spending was in a decline; most of the increases of recent years actually have not compensated for the years of under funding inflation and a significant amount was for increases in our “voluntary” all day kindergarten. It was not until the passage of Prop. 301 was the state required to meet the inflationary increase or 2%. Also, while education funding has increased, almost all increases are determined for the hows and whys before they ever are approved. Teacher pay has been a big issue; compare the teacher pay of Arizona across the nation and we fare about middle of the pack. Compare our per student spending on operations costs and we are rock bottom despite what has been some improvements through the years, compare our student achievement and we do much better than our dollars would indicate.

    As for ELL, it is mandated by the state and federal government yet it is under funded by a huge percentage of the costs. That means the dollars necessary to educate an English Language Learner are coming from the classroom of the already English speaking child. There is no way to know but it isn’t hard to speculate that if the funding was truly for the schools of legal citizens how much better prepared and efficient our schools would be.

    As for Janet; she approved tax credits and vouchers in the last session. She used them as a big chip in the game of Arizona Hold ‘Em we call our budget negotiations.

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