Kyl’s new friends.

     The senate immigration bill went down by a vote of 53 nays to 46 yeas. It was a cloture vote requiring a super-majority of 60 yeas. Amazingly it did not even reach a simple majority. The floor proceedings were contentious for the senate.

     Sadly Senator Kyl joined with 12 other Republicans in voting for cloture. He allied with such stalwarts as Lindsey “Just shut up” Graham, Trent “shut down talk radio” Lott, Olympia Snowe, Arlen Specter, and the open borders duo of Mel Martinez and former presidential candidate John McCain.

     The Democrats were really the ones that killed the bill. While 12 Republicans voted for cloture, 15 Democrats plus Independent (Socialist) Bernie Sanders voted against cloture. It is an interesting day when Byrd, Dorgan, Rockefeller, and Sanders vote the same as Coburn, DeMint, Ensign, Inhofe, and Thune.


Comments

  1. “The Democrats were really the ones that killed the bill.”

    This is only true if you come from the perspective that Republicans are expected to vote against the bill, while Democrats are expected to vote for it. More Republicans voted to kill the immigration bill by far:

    37 out of 49 (76%) Republicans voted against cloture (to kill it)

    15 of 48 (29%) Democrats voted against cloture

    Jon Kyl’s vote for amnesty is a severe breach of trust and unjustifiable. This would be the case even if Kyl had not made opposition to amnesty the centerpiece of last year’s election. The fact that Kyl DID declare himself the no-amnesty choice in the campaign makes him one of the ultimate flip-floppers in American congressional history.

  2. Brass Pair says

    I have mixed feelings over this. First and foremost, I’m glad the bill was killed. It was a severely flawed bill that had the priorities in the wrong order.

    I feel sorry for Kyl because I think he’s a good man who tried to do the right thing by not letting the dems submit a bill only to their liking. He just picked the wrong way to do it, IMHO. Instead of working to compromise he should have exposed it for what it is and fought it. Hopefully he can admit his mistake and get back on the right (no pun) side of the issues for the rest of his term.

    But this should also be the cement in the end of McCain’s campaign. Unlike Kyl who would debate opposition to the bill, McCain got nasty with anyone who was against it. I don’t believe that POS deserves to be President, much less one of our senators. Hell, for that matter, I wouldn’t let him bag my groceries.

  3. I am not sure how i feel about this as i didn’t have time to read the entire 600+ pages of the bill. However, I do know that our government is not capable of tracking all of these “guest workers” and Michael Chertoff (spelling) is full of garbage when he insists all of these immigrants will get a background check within 24 hours.

    We don’t have a competent enough government to track and enforce this proposed system. The passport fiasco is proof enough.

    Lets wait for a governement and administration that is run effectively before we decide to let 12 million plus people into our country.

  4. Although I am VERY dissapointed in Sen. Kyl’s role in this issue, I find it difficult to forget all his stands on conservative issues in the past and others currently. He’s going to be around awhile and I hope he can mend fences with his viscerally angry constituency. He could do that by putting the same amount of energy and dedication into securing the borders and enforcing current immigration laws, that he put into this pitiful attempt at amnesty. I’m not quite ready to blindfold him and lead him to the political gallows yet.

  5. Mighty difficult to buy Kyl’s argument that he had to work within the framework of a Democrat majority. Let’s remember that Republicans were in leadership for years while this invasion was allowed to continue virtually unabated.

    I was previously a strong Kyl supporter. My head nodded in agreement every time I saw his persuasive campaign ad depicting him standing on the border with a group of Arizona sheriffs, both Democrat and Republican, declaring that he knew the issues they dealt with. The lawmen said they supported him over his opponent, Jim Pederson, because Kyl would secure the border.

    That ad, no doubt, garnered him widespread support. But within months of taping it he was called, “The architect of Comprehensive Immigration Reform.” (Wonder what that means in plain English?) This was the sole topic of conversation at the recent homeowners association meeting I attended, where there were issues we actually met to discuss. All of the attendees were furious. There was bewilderment at his sellout and interplay with the likes of Kennedy. He’s lucky he has a six year term, because if that gathering was any indication, he couldn’t get elected dogcatcher. BYW, there were only 9 admitted Democrats out of the group of nearly 50 homeowners in attendance at the meeting. And, for what it’s worth, the Republicans felt more betrayed than the Democrats.

  6. nightcrawler says

    RDH,

    I agree with you. We simply can’t throw Kyl under the bus. We need him. He has done a lot to further conservative causes for this state for a very long time. My sense of this is (I am only speculating) that he made a commitment to the President and because he is a man of his word, he followed through to the bitter end, regardless of the feelings of betrayal from his electorate. That is the fundamental difference between principle and politics. The latter became his new mistress. Now he must return home and explain himself to his loving conservative wife.

  7. nightcrawler,

    I apprediate that a person sometimes makes a commitment to someone that later he wishes he had not made. It is a matter of integrity to keep your word even when it is uncomfortable.

    My problem is that Kyl gave his word in the campaign last year to thousands of Arizonans in public meetings and to millions via campaign pieces and failed to keep his word to them.

    He also gave his word to Party leaders in small group meetings this spring that he would never support any amnesty provisions as were written in this bill WHILE HE WAS ACTUALLY AGREEING TO THEM IN SECRET MEETINGS WITH CHAPPAQUIDDICK TED!

    You cannot congratulate him for being a man of his word to the President, while he is violating his word to hundreds of others. In addition, if you are working against the very people who elected you due to your stance on an issue, shouldn’t you apologize in some manner and explain that you had given a commitment to the President and stipulate that Sen. Kennedy’s staff had completed the draft with language that was different than you understood – or SOMETHING?

  8. nightcrawler says

    GOP PK,

    We are on the same page. The answer to your question is yes. That would have been the right thing to do.

  9. kralmajales says

    Ahhh now the backing off Kyl…the smoothing things over…the love comes back. Something I predicted early in this debate.

    As I have said before, Kyl is the most loyal, conservative soldier left in the entire Senate. He has carried the water for the administration in the Senate and has one of the most conservative voting records of them.

    He is also visionary, unlike many in the Republican party that I used to call home. The party did nothing on immigration for years as was noted. This Amnesty stuff you all talk about came up under Reagan and was a very different bill than this one…in terms of border security.

    What Kyl, Lott, and Graham (and the like) know is that Republican tough talk on immigration invites racism, anger, and frankly moves Hispanic/Chicano voters further towards the democrats than Republicans. GOP party planners know this…fear this…and see this vote and others like them as a serious serious problem for the party.

    Bush was able to attract Hispanics on conservative principles…traditional ones. The children of illegal immigrants (many citizens) are registering Democrat. Like in California after Gov. Wilson and the anti-immigrant proposition, this Lou Dobbsian fight also drives scores of citizen latino voters away from the GOP.

    This…all…at a time Latinos are the fastest growing citizen population in the US.

    Kyl was freaking visionary…and most undercut him and his loyalty to you…at a most inopportune time.

  10. kralmajales

    At least you are consistent. You misread and misanalyse and misstate.

    I am not backing off Kyl one iota. I feel that he betrayed everyone except the President on this issue that is central to the sovereignty of this country.

    I remind you that the Democrats were in power for eight years of the CLinton Presidency – longer than the Bush Presidency – and did nothing about the illegal immigration problem.

    Recently arriving hispanics are registering more heavily Democrat because they know that the Democrat Party is willing to violate our own laws and give them handouts and that a majority of the Democrats are willing to institute amnesty program after amnesty program.

    Kyl was much more than freaking visionary – he did not honor his word to his constituents and decided to not represent the people who elected him. This may help explain why you are a FORMER Republican.

    Conservative Republicans (it used to be universal, but moderate R’s and almost all D’s no longer fit the mold) are kind of insistent that when you look someone in the eye in a small group setting and give them your word as to what you will or will not do on an issue, we expect you to do exactly that or in extremely rare cases, if you are compelled to change your position due to more information or other valid reason, you come back to the group and explain with clarity what you feel you must do BEFORE it is public knowledge.

    It is uncomfortable at times, but it is required if you want to maintain a reputation for integrity.

  11. nightcrawler says

    Don’t take the bait ! Kralmajales is attempting to stir the pot.

    The truth is that the Latino community is tailor made for the GOP. Latino values such as faith, family and honor are very much in line with the GOP platform.

    The liberal media which demonizes conservatives for sport has much to do with the anger you speak. The Democratic party acts as is it “owns” the Hispanic vote. People are told to vote in one direction as a way to demonstrate cultural loyalty.

    In my view there are many legal immigrants in the Hispanic community who went through the natualization process the right way that might actually feel that amnesty is completely unfair to them. Everyone assumes that the Latino community speaks with one voice. I am not so sure that is the case.

    The GOP needs to do a better job of explaining our position in a meaningful way that will relate to all potential members, specifically the Latino community.

  12. Actually, nightcrawler, we are in alignment on this. The problem is that we need to do the groundwork this year with credible resources of time and outreach if we are to acheive a positive response at the ballot box next year.

    I have lived in areas with predominant Latino population for many decades and have been unhappy with the lack of attention in this area. Again, this happened in Party administrations controlled by the Congressional delegation.

    I am hopeful that there will be a different approach to this situation under Chairman Pullen and Sean McCaffrey. A large majority of hispanics who have followed our laws are as unhappy as we are about the actions and attendant consequences of the illegal actions of those who choose to violate our sovereignty.

  13. kralmajales says

    Im not stirring anything at all here that any of you haven’t stirred yourself, Nightcrawler. As a former member of the GOP, I watched and talked myself to death in a southern state about how the GOP ignored African-American voters…to the point of not caring.

    On the issue of Hispanic voters, you are right, there are some natural places where many might indeed find conservatism attractive, but never ever in a million years after the policies that you have enacted, advocated for, and that have been aimed at not just illegals but the entire ethnic group. Many of the symbolic policies indeed are demonize “them” and lead many members of your party to consider things like the “Hispanicization” of the nation. Those messages and this very debate literally kill any hope of your party ever getting above 30% of the Latino vote…the largest growth in US demographic in this nation…and a massive part of this state.

    Anyhow…I don’t care…they will be voting Democrat…and so will this independent…until I see something different from you all.

  14. kralmajales says

    Oh and the liberal media? Look at what Lou Dobbs profers each night on his show? Just listen to talk radio? Come on…you can’t deny that you drive a massive wedge when you attack the illegal immigrant, their children (which are in many cases LEGAL), scream about them not learning English, but yet screaming again about paying anything to provide any English training at all. There are lines for people to learn English in this country at non-profits. Every policy seems to be to demonize Hispanics and, intentionally or not, leads people to see all people with brown skin as “them illegals”. You feed this everywhere as a party and in the end have the audacity to say that Hispanic-Americans will still vote for us because they like our message on religion?

    Not. Just watch the next election and the percentage of vote.

  15. well, not to death, obviously.

    Since you are from the South, and you are concerned about the African American voter, I am confused as to why you are an ex-Republican.

    The Republican Party has been the Party that has all the historical high ground in civil rights begining with the Civil War against slavery a horrible policy supported by the Democrat Party. The Republican Party was the driving force for women’s suffrage, a position I am sure you would agree with, in a fight against the Democrat Party. Once again, the Republican Party was the driving force for over a decade that finally resulted in the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act in a struggle against KKK Byrd, Wallace, TP Gore.

    As a lasting legacy to segregation, they even named the House Office Buildings the Russell Long and Richard Russell buildings. That should make all Democrats proud – especially those from the South who are concerned about the plight of the African Americans.

    It seems to me that the rule of law and the protection of the sovereignty of our country would be important to you.

    Lastly, the invasion of our country has economically and socially damaged the African American and legal Hispanic populations by depressing wages in those industries where those populations have traditionally began their careers and requiring the expenditures of funds to give special educational benefits to their children to the detriment of all others including the African and Native American children whose test scores are lower.

    So, Republicans eliminated slavery, passed womens suffrage, passed the Civil Rights Act, and fight to preserve the freedoms and livelihood of our citizens, fight for the preservation of the Bill of Rights, and defend the nation against the invasion of our sovereignty with the Democrat Party on the wrong side of all those issues.

    You’re right. No reason to support the Republican Party if you believe in the Democrat position on these issues. So, I guess that lets us know where you stand on the important issues of the day.

  16. kralmajales says

    OH you tell half the history of the GRAND OLD Party but not the one that took the reigns in the South in the 60s. No question that the yellow dog Democrat of the south was a party of racism, but Republicans not…come on…you don’t believe that. Also, political science tells us plainly that the Republican party shifted vastly away from those roots in the 60s and in the south took on (as in brought aboard) the segregationists of times then. The Strom Thurmonds of the world and the many many shifts and party changes go to this hand in hand. It is the Republican party in the south…in Georgia today…who uses the law to try to disenfranchise African-Americans and continues race baiting like the “illegal alien” spector that conservative talk radio uses to scare people.

    On every issue from affirmative action, the role of government in helping level the playing field and provide some access to our economy, to schools and school districts, to voter ID laws designed to disenfranchise black Americans, the GOP is decidedly not…the one of Lincoln.

    The track record is not a good one, it is why African-Americans continue to vote Democrat to the tune of 80-90% and is also why Hispanic Americans will undoubtably be going back to about 70-80% support for Democrats.

    You can argue its them, but sometimes a party has to look in the mirror.

  17. kralmajales says

    As far as social programs and the money illegals cost America, the jury is out as to whether the amount of tax dollars we spend trying to police the border and deport them is not equal or even more in money. I know you aren’t libertarians (most here aren’t) but how can you support spending Billions on border patrol, the costs to courts, etc. It would probably be cheaper to subsidize the costs to healthcare companies that claim to be loosing so much money to the illegal, but continue to post record profits.

    As for social program and the “welfare” question…that cannot fly. I will even give you all credit for this. Republicans brought about workfare over welfare. No one just gets a check anymore. In addition, you have cut off almost every possible social program that an undocumented could recieve. Most hide in the shadows in fear of your solution…deportation.

    Deporting 12 million who are here illegally would also be quite costly…I bet more than by far we spend on their children learning English to be productive citizens.

    I look back and think of America in the days when the Irish and Chinese built our railroads. Mexican labor, study after study backs this, has been a benefit to our economy. It has indeed lowered wages some…but not dramatically from the studies I have seen. There are other ways to solve this problem…in part…giving them citizenship or a pathway to this so the wages have to reflect what society thinks is a good wage.
    Frankly though, why do you all care…this is the market at work through and through. You don’t support minimum wages…you believe that labor should be free to contract with management individually…without unions…

    When it comes down to it…IF the undocumented worker depresses wages…then so be it. That is what the market would bear for that job.

    Oh well…I blather.

  18. kralmajales says

    Oh..and rule of law??? HUH?

    A poll: Scooter Libby was convicted in our just system, was sentenced by a Republican judge who interpreted our law, and was sentenced under the very stiff punishment sentencing guidelines that Republicans defend.

    How many think he should be PARDONED? Where is the rule of law in that?

    And how many wanted to save the soul to Trish Groe and Rick Renzi now that they are under serious investigation for violating our rule of law?

    And the Constitution that you allowed Gonzalez and Bush to “interpret” to get AROUND the clear FISA law that was used as toilet paper to allow spying on Americans…

    I can go on and on and on…

    Rule of law is a slogan. It means nothing. We argue everyday about how law should be applied and enforced under the context we are presented. In this case, hard working, predominantly Christian, undocumented laborers, who simply want to feed their families are demonized and some how all the others that I mention are protected.

  19. Oro Valley Dad says

    kral,

    They are not protected here. Bash Kitchener and Gonzalez all you want.

    Who is demonizing people who illegally cross the border? Just apply the law, same as you would for anyone who is guilty of violating it.

  20. K – RE: Post 18

    President Jimmy Carter granted clemency to 566 people. President Reagan granted fewer pardons and commutations than any prior President in the twentieth century. George H. W. Bush issued even fewer pardons (77), and as Governor of Texas, George W. Bush issued fewer pardons than any Texas Governor since the 1940’s (16 through January 2000, compared to 70 for his immediate predecessor Ann Richards, 822 for two-term governor Bill Clements, and 1048 for John Connally, Texas governor from 1963-69).
    President Bill Clinton pardoned and commuted the sentences of 456 people, including the following:

    Benjamin Berger – conspiracy to defraud the United States, wire fraud, false statement, money laundering, and filing a false tax return. Totaled more than $40 million from government anti-poverty programs.

    Melvin Jay “Mel” Reynolds a Democrat Congressman convicted in 1995 on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography. April 1997, he was convicted on 15 unrelated counts of bank fraud and lying to SEC investigators.

    Dorothy Rivers – lead official in Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, plead guilty to theft of 1.2 million dollars in federal grant money

    Carlos Anibal Vignali – convicted of cocaine trafficking

    Antonio Camacho Negron – FALN militant

    Susan McDougal, Marc Rich who were charged with crimes directly tied to the Clintons

    Roger Clinton, his half- brother

    President George W. Bush

    Pardoned 69 and commuted 2 in his first five years – none of them named Scooter.

    So much for the rule of law junk. I will be back in a flash on the others.

  21. Now to Post 16:

    Of the twenty segregationist Democrat Senators in the sixties, only Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms changed parties.

    Now lets look at Republican governors in the old south 1950-1999:

    Alabama: Guy Hunt 1987-1993
    Fob James 1995-1999

    Georgia: NONE

    Louisiana: David Treen 1980-1984

    Mississippi: Kirk Fordice 1992-2000

    N. Car.: James Holshouser 1973-1977
    James Martin 1985-1993

    S. Car.: James Edwards 1975-1979
    Carroll Campbell 1987-1995
    David Beasley 1995-1999

    So, out of 300 years possible, Republicans were the Governor fifty years and Democrats were the Governor two hundred fifty years. Doesn’t exactly look like a Republican takeover.

    In addition, South Carolina was the only Old South state with a Republican majority in the legislature as of 2000. In addition, during the eighties Democrats held as many as 83% of all legislative seats in the south.

    The problem with some voting groups is they vote on what they are given, not on what they are allowed to achieve. I know that seems like a harsh Republican thing to say, but it is what it is.

  22. K – Post 17

    That is the rationale that says slavery is OK. Have people here in violation of our laws who live forty to a single family house and cannot complain or bargain for living wages – I thought you were a union man. We are the only nation to allow this. If it is so good an idea, why doesn’t Mexico implement a similar policy for Central Americans?

    Indeed, at times you do blather because your thinking is circular and has the depth of data similar to what is spewed by the MSM. There are a lot of people coming across the border who are not looking to acquire the American Dream through hard work and the rule of law.

    Actually, I used to oversee the farm labor operations for the Department of Labor and am in favor of legal temporary workers as an important piece of the puzzle. However, this illegal invasion and the resulting damage to society is unacceptable and the granting of amnesty will only make the problem worse.

    As to the cutting off the social programs, it is theory that that happens. The forms used by DES state that they do not have to provide documentation of legal status – which is in direct violation of Prop 100 passed last year overwhelmingly.

    As to deportation, if we eliminate Sanctuary Cities policies – which are in violation of federal law – and implement the Basic Pilot Program and secure the border, history shows that we will not have to do any type of mass deportation – it will happen by attrition.

  23. kralmajales says

    #20…I will keep it simple. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t like the pardon power except in cases of historical findings that a person did not do the crime. I may be persuaded on others. I am sure that most of you would or should agree with me on this…if…you believe in the rule of law that you tout so strongly.

  24. Then stop casting it in the light of a Republican problem when history shows the opposite. Also, Bush has not even pardoned Libby and you are so prejudiced that he is already being charged as if he had.

  25. kralmajales says

    GOP PK

    First, on 21…there is no question that the Democratic party was the party of segregation in the south. It was not the case in most other places of America. The thing you forget about history is this…a massive change occurred in the late 60s that took the Republican party far away from most minority groups. Part of it is policies (no question) which hinge on race and part of it is the message and symbolism the Republican party has demonstrated.

    The Republican party in the south and elsewhere presents a mantra of social spending as being wasteful but spending on war and frankly on corporate relief is not. Policy after policy shuns the key problems of poverty that affect American children of color. They are not blatantly racist policies anymore…they are simply…sorry you are poor…make it like everyone else. Everyone else has quite a head start. Even poppa bush worried about this and tried to do it with empowerment zones, but when it comes down to white versus black in the new Republican south (and White versus Hispanic) it is about power and the fact that minorities tend overwhelmingly to vote Democrat and not Republican.

    Facts as of today…

    two polls presented that show Hispanic and Latino American voters overwhelmingly identifying with Democratic party and with Independents. It may even be that they don’t necessarily LIKE the democrats message…but that they despise yours…which does indeed on Republican talk radio demonize Hispanics in example after example after example. Words like “lazy”, “learn the language” (when you have no intention of helping), “some Hispanic who couldn’t read a sign wiped out a white family”, I have heard tons.

    As of today:

    Hispanics who identify themselves with the Republican Pary:

    20% in two different polls.
    well over 50% Democrat
    the change as independent.

    Independents overwhelmingly identifying with Democrat party…not so much because they like them…but because your party has such high negatives.

    GOP…I know from a previous post that you care very much about changing this and that conservatism should appeal to these blocks of voters.

    How, then, should the Republican party change their image? Or is it easier to just demonize, call them criminals, call them lazy poor, and that they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

    Last, you state this and it is most telling and true:

    “The problem with some voting groups is they vote on what they are given, not on what they are allowed to achieve. I know that seems like a harsh Republican thing to say, but it is what it is.”

    This is exactly why, among some basic racial arguments, these groups in society do not support you. Sure…its true. You dont favor affirmative action, spending on poverty, a different funding mechanism for schools that takes into consideration that wealthy school districts and where you live is the single predictor of educational success, etc.

    How can you say colorblind, lower govt., etc. when the clear policies of the party DO promote tax and spend on Iraq? On corporate breaks from taxes? On even subsidies to the very wealthy (like public private ventures).

    In the end what many of us see is this:

    You DO favor government spending…but not on social programs or these constituencies. You hope to erase the cycle of poverty that afflicts black and Hispanic America most by arguing for a color-blind society and no favoritism. But favoritism abounds in your govenment policies.

    In the meantime, I want to hear how you erase the damage that this immigration debate (like with Prop 187 in California under Wilson) done to your party for years to come?

    Best…and Happy Independence Day in advance!

  26. kralmajales says

    #22…

    Why temporary worker programs and not permanent…under some pathway to citizenship? The answer is typically cause it rewards lawbreakers. We have been rewarding lawbreakers under this failed policy for years in the form of those who hire them. I know many of you here think a crackdown must occur though so I may be preaching to the choir.

    I just dont see this issue as the undoing of America. It is a politically salient debate that the Republican party uses to score points. Kyl and others tried to find some kind of squishy middle ground to solve this problem and to recognize the need for skilled and unskilled labor we are facing now.

    The answer of the radicals…maybe not you…is deport them, crack down on them, split up families, raid houses, attack the culture.

    Even you have to admit that this fuels racism…even if you don’t intend it. It will not solve the problem and in the end, you lose Hispanic voters for a good long time.

    I don’t mean to sound vitriolic.

  27. Do not forget that the major problem with poverty resides in the cities that have been run almost exclusively across America by Democrat leaders. You seem unwilling to accept that it has been under their watch and that the only way to solve it is to break the pattern.

    For example, many of us in the Republican Party advocated for workfare and it has worked. Many of us have also advocated for government to stop mandating policies that continue the cycle in other avenues.

    For instance, why not design public policies that work to reduce the number one reason for poverty in the black community – the absent father syndrome? It has been advocated by Republicans and reviled by Democrats who need those households to be economically dependent on the Democrat New Deal, Great Society and Village silent slavery.

    Stop listening to the Democrat sound bites which end up in continuing the problem. Remember, the Democrats were in charge of the House for fifty uninterrupted years and there were dozens of years when they had the Presidency and the Senate in addition. If they were sincere in wanting to solve the problem, they have had ample opportunity and their policies have only made the problems worse.

  28. As far as permanent immigration is concerned, America has the most liberal legal immigration which leads to citizenship of any country on the face of the earth. To ignore that fact like the MSM does is disingenuous. To present the overall picture without acknowledging that fact is intentional misleading of the public.

  29. kralmajales says

    We do indeed have a liberal immigration policy, but the solution some in your party have is to crack down on that…and that crackdown tends to be on people south of the border.

    Even you have to admit that the rhetoric is overly heated, that this “problem” is no where near what the party is making it out to be. If it had been then BOTH Clinton’s eight years and the years since 1994 that Republicans have controlled Congress (and six years with Bush) would have resulted in some sort of plan, somehow, that would address it.

    We can’t even hire the border patrol agents that we have allocated. I am in a position to know…I get mailer after mailer asking my students to apply and come to job fairs. They don’t want to do that job…its no fun, thankless, and I am not sure of the commitment many have to this cause.

    THAT is why we had to send the National Guard to do the policing. I guess we could raise the pay of the border patrol to a massive level to attract the workers…and we can spend billions on the fence…but that is MY money we are talking about. A tenth of that might improve education and highways.

  30. I have never heard anyone in my part of the Party advocate the “Cracking Down” on our current legal immigration numbers. Of course, since you are not a Republican, you probably have more knowledge about that than I do – NOT!

    The reason people do not want to work for the Border Patrol is due to the policies, including what happens to people like Ramos, Campeon, etc.

    As far as the National Guard is concerned, you don’t know what is happening there except what the the Prez, the Gov or Rataczyk tells you and I know from first hand information that what they are spewing is a pack of lies , so it would be best to not try and discuss it.

    As to education and highways, enforce the border, eliminate Sanctuary Cities, penalize employers who hire illegals with impunity, enforce Prop 100. That will free up three billion dollars a year from the state general budget, while cutting class sizes, reducing the requirement to spend hundreds of millions on ELL and reducing the number of cars on the roads making it safer and less congested for those who are legally on the highways.

  31. nightcrawler says

    Kral,

    I thought there was a scent of Academica perfume in the air. I would have put money on it. Even though I don’t agree with you a good bit of the time, I believe your posts add tremendous value to this blog. These are the discussions we all should be having on any media available.

    I do believe the MSM (to coin a GOP PK abbreviation) does in fact spin the conservatives as a bunch of racists. That is certainly not the case, as I mentioned before, the GOP does a poor job of explaining its positions. As a result, the fanatic message fills the vacuum and here we go again trying to tip toe around strategically placed racial landmines in an effort to explain ourselves without offending anyone. Some members of our Party are better at that than others.

    We are all in the unique position to be witnesses to history. Both on the federal and more importantly, as of tomorrow, the state level. These immigration decisions will affect politics in this state for decades.

    I do agree with Kral that the relationship between business and the GOP will suffer if we are too heavy handed. On the flip side, the base of the GOP will not stand for a capitulation of principle. The talk show rants, the emails, phone calls, the organization that many who post on this blog participate in are real and from the heart. Like the message or not, this is the democratic process in its finest hour. For the first time in a decades, people of many walks of life do care what goes on in Washington.

    The dialogue and vibe remind me of the late sixties. Passions run deep and there is so much at stake.

    We have arrived at a crossroads folks. Buckle up, it is going to be quite a ride.

  32. kralmajales says

    I have enjoyed these exchanges GOP and Nightcrawler…thanks for being kind.

    Thought you might have seen this and would like to know it:

    http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/56335.php

    Gov. signed the employer bill…with reservation. It is now law. Lets see who business blames the most…Republicans or Gov. Napolitano.

  33. Hey, is there a section just for latest news

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