Immigration study deeply flawed.

     The Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy recently released a policy paper on the economic impact of immigrants written by Judith Gans. The report is deeply flawed because it does not distinguish between people working here legally and illegally. The report also excludes several expenses from people illegally entering the U.S. along the Mexico border. The false conclusions of the report were gleefully extolled in an Arizona Daily Star article.

     The primary flaw of the report is lumping the economic contribution from naturalized citizens and foreigners working here legally with those working illegally in Arizona. The report does make a useless distinction between immigrants who have become citizens and those who are non-citizens. The distinction has no value in setting public policy since no reasonable group in Arizona is objecting to legal immigration or naturalization programs. The category of non-citizen immigrants is also meaningless because that could include highly skilled foreigners legally working in Arizona. Again a segment to which no legitimate group is objecting. The only distinction that would be useful in the current debate would be that of the economic contribution from people illegally working in Arizona vs. the expense associated with their presence. That category is not broken out in the report. It appears that the report deceptively lumped a foreign born workers, legal and illegal, together in order to make the overall economic value as large as possible. The economic contribution of a naturalized surgeon is going to be much greater than an illegal fast food worker. In the report the large value of one is used to mask the small contribution of the other.

     Several expenses of people illegally crossing the border drawn by illegal employment were left out. The wages of illegal workers sent back to their country of origin should be subtracted from any economic contribution since that amount is essentially being taken out of the state’s economy and spent elsewhere. I could not find any such adjustment in the report. There was also no category for the environmental impact of people illegally crossing the border. The garbage, cost to clean it up, and the impact on wildlife should all be subtracted from any economic contribution. The cost of fires set along the border should also be subtracted. There was no mention of the high rate of auto theft in the Tucson area while the rates decline nationwide.

     Costs from people illegally crossing the border incurred by federal agencies are also left out of the report. Who pays for those costs? U.S. taxpayer do and Arizona contains millions of federal taxpayers, thus a relevant cost.

     The most glaring exclusion is the cost in human lives from people illegally crossing the border. So far this year the Border Patrol has reported 116 deaths in just the Tucson sector. What is the worth of a human life? According to Gans’ report – zero. Sadly those who die a horrible death in the desert are part of the cost of cheap illegal labor in Arizona. A large cost indeed.

     It is sad to see so much effort put into a lengthy study that has no value regarding the current debate over people ILLEGALLY working in Arizona.

Update: We left out the spread of AIDS in rural Mexico.


Comments

  1. Iris Lynch says

    Yes, and what about the human costs to American citizens who have lost their lives or been injured in an ‘accident’ caused by an illegal alien? Note, the illegal alien gets all of HIS medical needs covered by the taxes of the guy he has incapicitated, perhaps for life? Then there are the little girls who will never enjoy a normal sex life if they lived through the attack and the costs to their parents for the many years of ‘help’. There are many hidden costs, some of which can never be determined in dollars alone. As a woman, I believe the burden of much of this invasion falls upon the female Americans to a greater extent. After all, the average illegal is a male between the ages of 18-30 and if they are not dangerous, they often start an additional ‘family’ for the tax payers to care for when they go back ‘home’.
    And to think we have been brainwashed to see THEM as the victims!

  2. kralmajales says

    This is unbelievable bunk, OVD. First off, your concern for the lives of the immigrants and the environment have hearby been noted. The policies of policing the border in areas near population centers have driven the problem to rural areas. These costs are born because of our policy.

    The expenses to fight the border crossers…the billions of our tax dollars spent…should indeed be placed in the cost category, but they could be removed if we took a more human stance on the border and recognized the positive economic impact of those who come here to work.

    The distinctions you make do not flaw or damage the report. The estimates of benefits, in fact, are very very conservative…just in case some of you objected to the merit of the report.

    Conservatives always note that there are more here illegally than their are estimated. That would make the benefits this report analyzes even higher…and sure the costs too. But not at a level that would minimize the fact that the sum total benefit to our economy and Arizona business is a plus.

    As for the comments about AIDS, auto theft, questions about the so called accidents they cause…they are without support and are so minor in number in comparison to the crimes that go unreported because people live in fear of being deported…that it just doesn’t compare.

    Finally, all these so called services they receive are hilarious. Welfare has been tightened massively, most services are not eligible to non-citizens, and the costs to health care could easily be subsidized at a fraction of the cost that it takes to build the walls.

    We need a guest worker program, we a need comprehensive solution to this problem that is pragmatic. One that touches on the benefits and the costs.

    The solution of the Dobbs of the world to deport and spend billions on enforcement…do neither.

  3. kralmajales says

    Oh Iris…we wouldn’t want anyone starting a FAMILY in our nation now would we? I tend to see the values in the people coming here to work to be superior to those of most 2nd, 3rd generation natives. The work ethic his higher, they are deeply religious, and family means more to them than anything. We might learn a bit from them.

  4. Oro Valley Dad says

    kral,

    Nothing in your rambling response addressed the underlying flaw of the Udall Center report, that there is no distinction between legal or illegal foreign-born workers.

    You bring up issues that we not even in the post. There was no mention about welfare.

    You are correct. We do need a “solution to this problem.” To be pragmatic any realistic solution that would have enough political support to get passed and signed into law should include a mechanism for actually securing the border.

  5. kralmajales says

    I will address it. They break of the data, and do not lump together, naturalized citizens and those who are unnaturalized. You are correct, and they note specifically, that of the unnaturalized there are those here legally on VISAS and those who are here illegally. They note that no one knows for sure how many illegals are here, but put in good, but conservative estimates of the number that are. They note as many as 500k out of the 800k total here working as unnaturalized citizens. They also went to great pains to suggest that the Demographics (poor, unskilled workers) are similar to those in this category overall. Because there are so many illegals hiding, these estimates are conservative and are below what most conservatives estimate as the number.

    The rest of the analysis, as conservative as it is, is sound. If there are more illegals here than estimated then the total spending power, workforce benefits, and taxes contributed are actually higher. And yes, the costs of ESL, health care, and enforcement will be more too. The point is that benefits still outweigh costs.

    The types of solutions put forth by the Dobbsians does not come close to solving the problem. The enforcement costs go up, up, up. A government program that benefits those who go into law enforcement and that build the technology needed to fight the border war. Not capitalism. All the while, the estimated 12 million here illegally continue to work, raise families, hide, and fail to become witnesses and turn in criminals.

    The bottom line though, and what you seem to admit in this post is that LEGAL immigration is necessary and is beneficial. You don’t just like the illegal. So why don’t we just let more in on VISAS, give a pathway to citizenship to those who are here now, and fight both sides of this battle that tends to be more beneficial to us than not.

  6. kralmajales says

    As to securing the border. We can’t. A wall wont help, its too expensive, and we can’t enforce the laws we have. It isn’t because people don’t want to, it is because it is expensive…and on top of that, few people want to be in the border patrol.

    Hell, they are trying to recruit. They have lowered standards and requirements, and have blanketed campuses with recruiters to find people to do it. They authorized 5000 new hires and we have not come close to that many.

    If this is a secure the border at all costs attitude, then it is one that America, when they see the price tag, won’t buy.

  7. Kral is so full of it. You can secure the border, perhaps never to 100%, but certainly to 95% or greater. This will do wonders to stem the flow of narcotics and all sorts of other problems into the country. Combined with a real guest worker program, we’ll have a healthy flow of workers back and forth which will put the coyotes out of business and virtually end the deaths in the desert, etc. A secure border will also sharply cut crime rates here in Arizona because it will be more difficult for criminals to come in as well as much more difficult for the cars and other stolen property to get out.

    The Gans study neglects the spread of HIV back into Mexico, but it also ignores the cost of the TB and other diseases being imported from Mexico.

    Folks, don’t let Kral get you too fired up. He doesn’t make sense and its maddening, but that’s why he’s a lib and we’re conservative. If he could figure all of this out for himself, he’d be conservative too!

  8. Oro Valley Dad says

    kral,

    The report constantly mixes apples and oranges. From the executive summary on pages 3-6 the wages for non-citizens comes to $926 million. The costs associated with non-citizens are $119.9 for uncompensated health care and $477.4 for AHCCCS. Add to that $544 million for ELL education and you have a minus $215.3 million. So much for a net benefit.

    As to the cost of securing the border estimates go up to $30 billion. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are costing $12 billion a month. We could get the fence built for the price of 3 months of fighting foreign wars.

    You and the report are both engaging in sophistry. It is as if there were a great debate in Arizona of the benefits of solar electricity and a report came out comparing fossil fuel energy to alternative energy. The category of alternative energy includes nuclear, wind, water, and solar with no accurate break out for cost and benefits of solar. The report would be great for comparing traditional methods of generating electricity vs. alternatives but would be useless in specifically addressing the debate over solar energy.

  9. Iris Lynch says

    Oh Kral,
    I said an ‘additional’ family. You know, one that they used, knowing all along they had no intention of supporting to adulthood whenever they decide to go home to Maria and the kids in Mexico OR?. But I am certain you understand self-indulgence and see THEM as the Victims of life. As for the kids, well they are OUR responsibility. Illegal aliens should not be burdened with the concept or anything else.

  10. Hometown Guy says

    Regarding securing the border, Kralmajales says: “We can’t. A wall won’t help, its too expensive.”

    However, most of us think it’s “too expensive” NOT to construct barriers to staunch this never-ending flow of those who come here in violation of our laws.

    This guy is teaching our children. That’s enough to strike fear in any sane person’s heart..

  11. kralmajales says

    hahahaha Hometown…don’t worry, your kids are safe. I teach facts and blogs distort them.

    Again, the amount appropriated to build a wall is enormous and it would take much more than that as most estimate. I am just saying that this problem is not that important. The benefits clearly outweigh the costs, so why should we spend all of our tax dollars on this instead of maybe using it to help people?

    Gosh I am a softie I guess…to think that our taxes would be better spent in that fashion than on building a barrier to our neighbors to the south.

  12. kralmajales says

    And Tim S.

    You claim we can shut down 95% of the border. Just look at the border and the construction costs. Just how much do you think it would cost and how much much are you willing to raise taxes to support it. I bet on the former…Billions…whatever it takes…on the latter I am betting you don’t want to raise taxes one cent.

    This is big government in the biggest of ways. You can’t sidestep that. The billions that it will take to get to 95% are plainly not worth the costs…this study shows it, so do others. It is why the Chamber of Commerce thinks this idea is nuts and why they also think it would ruin our economy.

  13. Oro Valley Dad says

    kral,

    As usual you have done a good job of not answering the original critique of the Udall Center report. Getting back to the report should not any measure of economic contribution subtract out the remittances back to the home country of origin? Is that not essentially money taken out of Arizona?

  14. Kral, I’d pay whatever it took because the savings would see us paid back in a year or two at most. Remember that the cost of illegals to the state budget of Arizona ALONE is $3 Billion this year. We’re just one state. Do the math and you’ll see that $30 Billion for national security is a small price to pay. What was the cost to the national economy of 9-11? Why leave the southern border open so that the next terrorists can just walk through?

    Kral, where you live, do you have a fence or wall? Why? If it doesn’t make sense, or is an unnecessary expense, or makes bad neighbors, or is unfriendly, or serves no purpose, or is ineffective, or any other excuse you want to use, then why do you have it?

    Knock it down I say. Kral, tear down this wall! Lead by example so that you can avoid being such a hypocrite.

    As for my home, we have walls and they work. That’s why we have them. They keep people out of my home. My neighbors aren’t offended by my walls, in fact, they have walls of their own.

    Mexico has troops on their southern border so that they can shoot at people trying to cross into Mexico. Shall we use the Mexican approach? Or would you, like Mexico themselves, hypocritically accuse us of barbaric tactics if we do to Mexico what it does to its own neighbors?

    There is a wall in San Diego. It works. Any debate over the effectiveness of a wall is wasted breath. That debate is over and the wall won.

    Lastly, I’m not surprised you’re on the public’s dime, but you teach? Yikes… Score another round for homeschooling…

  15. sato4gop says

    God save us from people like Kral…

    How about a couple more interesting facts about the cost of having illegals:

    80% of all syphilis cases in the US are Mexicans. Illegal or not this is outrageous.

    341,000 children in our public schools in Arizona do not speak English. What do you think that does to our children trying to learn in the same classrooms? Our children are being dumbed down and God help us if the kinds of teachers they have are like the one running his mouth here.

  16. Frank Soto says

    I’d like to jump into this dicsussion (man, you go 12 hours without checking this blog, and there are 15 comments, congratulations are in order to you SA folk). I am going to engage in pure sophistry and not discuss any of the original questions, just wanted to note a few things (sorry Kral, I would love to join you in this, but I am much too tired to check all these facts, etc. Lazy this week… again…)

    First: “He doesn’t make sense and its maddening, but that’s why he’s a lib and we’re conservative. If he could figure all of this out for himself, he’d be conservative too!”

    -I think this type of comment is out of place, especially on this site. There are plenty of conservatives that are wrong on things, and are quite maddening (um, Bush?). I actually think Kral has been making some sense (doesn’t mean I agree, calm down).

    “80% of all syphilis cases in the US are Mexicans. Illegal or not this is outrageous.”

    -I don’t know how to take this comment. Frankly, as a Christian, it make me feel sad, and want to help them, even if that is with government money. Especially, as you point out, they may all be legal citizens of this country. I think this is the type of comment that leads many liberals/progressives to say that people that support the wall/deportation, etc are secretly just racist. Can you see why they would think that?

  17. Oro Valley Dad says

    Thank you all for commenting. SA does not endorse all comments and we try to edit only those that specifically smear a known person (I know we have a mixed record on that but we are working on it.) If someone makes a remark about a particular disease in relation to people from a particular county it is incumbent on them to proved supporting documentation.

    We could edit comments more heavily but then the free flowing nature of this forum would change. That being said please stick with facts and logic and limit the invectives.

  18. Mr. Soto:

    No I can’t see that this is racist. We were talking about the cost of having illegals in this country and this is a signicant number with a huge financial and emotional cost.

    It is precisely that this and other diseases need to be brought out in the open. Hiding behind racism comments doesn’t solve any problems. When I brought my husband here from Japan he had to be tested for STD’s, TB, and have a psych eval during his physical besides all the criminal and finacial background checks.

    When our grandparents came here they spent days or weeks at Ellis Island or similar places to be evaluated and tested before they were allowed in. They had to prove that they would not become a burden to society and that they could support themselves. Why was this okay then but it is not okay now to discuss the diseases that illegals from third world countries are bringing in or spreading, the financial cost of taking care of them and their children and the increase criminal activity?

    Incidently, the day we landed on American soil we stopped speaking Japanese. My husband started studying for the citizenship test and he got a job. I guess I can’t expect everyone else to do the right thing. I should just shut up and keep paying my 40% taxes and carrying my gun to protect myself and my family.

  19. The 80% came from the news last night or over the weekend. I will find the source and send it on.

  20. TEH's #1 Fan says

    “80% of all syphilis cases in the US are Mexicans. Illegal or not this is outrageous.”

    I thought syphilis came from pirates?

  21. Buddy Breon says

    I got up in the middle of the night to read this stuff? “K” is an apologist for criminals. That is, if he agrees that “undocumented migrants” and many “day laborers” crossed into the United States illegally.

    There is no apology acceptable for criminals who do not stop breaking the law. As long as these border criminals continue to break our laws, there should be zero support for them. No medical, no educational, no housing, and, yes, unless they have surrendered to the authorities, no food. I’m tired of supporting people who, for a buck, are willing to violate our laws.

    When the problem crawls into Arizona, it is a state problem and deserves a state solution. The people like “K” ignore the crime. I don’t.

    To call it racist to want to send Mexican criminals back to Mexico is to think it is also racist to want to send English criminals back to England. Enter Arizona as a criminal, get sent back to where you came from. It’s that simple.

    I’m tired of those who support the criminal element in our community.

  22. kralmajales says

    I am making policy arguments that some of you disagree with. I am bringing up facts that people don’t consider as they whip themselves up into a frenzy about illegals destroying the American way of life. And my points on this are proven with respect to the syphillis comment and others labeling illegals as the reason for crime, etc. etc.

    If I was personal with any of you, then by all means I apologize. But some of the attacks I get in response are unfortunate and typical. When you don’t like what you hear, you attack the messenger and try to discredit him. Some here even attacked my profession and suggested that I should not be teaching…all because I think a wall is too expensive, the problem distorted and needing a different solution, and that there are real facts ignored in this debate about the economic impact of shutting down the border and deporting 12 million people who are here…working…and contributing to our economy.

    This debate is so mean spirited sometimes….and yes…I will say it…it doesn’t just border on racism, it fosters it. It is used to label people as diseased, as people who steal, as those who can’t speak any English, and the laws passed each year are aimed more and more at not just illegals but their family members.

    Some of the other things I have said are just true. The debate is turning off most Hispanic voters away from your party. The extremes some have gone to have turned off business as well.

    That may be ok…but think about what it means for your party and their ability to win elections and to govern.

    I’m a big boy…I hope that the attacks on me were meant in jest…and I do get heated myself…but for heavens sake, as Frank Soto said…think about people, be kind, be humane, as you talk about these policies. You might earn respect.

  23. kralmajales says

    Buddy,

    I am an apologist for criminals? I never said such a thing. Let me ask you, do you believe that Ramos and Campeon the border agents convicted and sentenced for shooting a drug dealer in the back should be freed? Do you believe Scooter Libby should have been pardoned?

    If you do on either count, then you are an apologist for criminals…not just accused criminals, but convicted ones.

    But maybe you don’t agree that Ramos and Campeon should be freed and are principled in the way you believe law should be applied, interpreted, and that the punishments when convicted should be stiff…so that the deter others.

  24. kralmajales says

    I think we should apply everything that Buddy said well to Ramos and Campeon. Read it again.

    Don’t some of you believe that the law is not an absolute, tha situations have context, and that the law should maybe change and even bend some when it leads to injustice.

    I am not saying at all that I think those here illegal shouldn’t be penalized for it. I also don’t think it is racist to say that people should be deported. I DO however think that many of the reasons why we focus on Mexicans and how we focus on them is racist. The same things (they don’t have the same culture, they dont want to learn English, they get into accidents and kill us, they bring diseases here, they are ruining our way of life) are not typically said about Chinese, about Europeans, about Canadians or others who come here illegally or overstay their VISAS.

    The last bill that was shot down as Amnesty, did penalize immigrants for being here illegally. No it wasn’t as harsh as deportation and the deportation of their families. It sought a middle ground because the context of this problem is different, people have been here working and living illegally for decades, their children many times are citizens, and each individual here does not present the kind of problem that they are made out to be…diseased, don’t want to learn English, criminals, illegal voters, etc etc etc.

  25. kralmajales says

    I think Sato4GOP makes some good points…honestly. I dont agree with all of them. This problem is difficult and yes there are horrible things that enter our country with immigration…and horrible things that enter our country when we simply let people travel abroad too.

    As for the English issue though. You make a point about how you immediately started learning English when you got here. Why do we choose to believe that those Mexicans and Latin Americans who come here “don’t” want to learn English? How can we be sure that many of the 12 million here did not learn English or try? I have been told that there are lines in our English programs. People beginning for the resources to learn.

    It is also false to think about immigration of the past as different. Most of the people who came here in the late 1800s and 1900s (our fathers mothers grandparent) did not know English. It took them time to learn, some never learned because they lived in communities where people spoke Polish, Czech, German or whatever.

    I think people who come here to live should learn the language. I don’t think they should be prohibited from speaking their native language in public though. I dont think we should generalize if someone chooses not to learn the language…it hurts them more than it does anything. I think we should encourage the learning of English and even help people who want to.

  26. kralmajales says

    I’m tired. I was, as you can see, quite awake. Babies wake us up at night, we put them to bed, but it is hard to get to sleep after they go down.

    Something we can all agree on.

    Night.

  27. kralmajales says

    PS. OVD, I must be ADD. You raised good questions that I want to answer, like # 17.

    Do I think remittances are a cost? No. Many times taxes were paid on those wages, they do buy things when here..but that is irrelevant.

    The point is that we live in a global economy that is without border. You assume that the wages of workers here would stay in our country, when we much of the dollars we spend go out of the country as well. To American factories overseas, to foreign producers of our goods, and to simply foreign trade.

    If the remittances are a cost to us, then most every dollar we spend is a cost to us as well.

    As my step uncle says…”aint nothing made in America anymore…”

  28. Oro Valley Dad says

    kral,

    Comment #25. “It is also false to think about immigration of the past as different. Most of the people who came here in the late 1800s and 1900s.” If they came here legally that is a huge difference.

    Comment #27. Certainly 100% of my earnings are not spent on goods produced in Arizona. On the other hand I am not wiring 35% of my wages out of the country. The very occasional vacation is a very small portion of my income. The vast majority of my money is spent in Arizona. Certainly some of the items purchased are made elsewhere but I do try to buy from countries that at least trade fairly with us.

    Certainly people working here illegally do buy things here but if $5,000 is wired out of country it should be subtracted reflected in the Udall report. Income taxes were paid on the earnings but since the money was sent out of state that amount avoids sales tax here and has no multiplier effect. If I go into a store and purchase even an imported item I am paying sales tax as well as providing a profit for a local store (multiplier effect.)

    Lots of things are still made in the U.S. Cars, paper products, food, military hardware, aircraft (right now Boeing is putting the heat on Airbus.) I have often thought of having a web site to celebrate the companies still manufacturing in the U.S.

  29. Oro Valley Dad says

    kral,

    Here is something made in the U.S. (in conjunction with one of our allies.)

    http://www.azstarnet.com/business/192201

  30. kralmajales says

    It is a shame that defense and building missles is what is becoming our biggest industries. That is a government program…its socialism essentially. But thank god for it. We need defense, its a public good, and I certainly don’t want to be buying it elsewhere.

    As to the other industries, most are tied to our global economy in one way or another. American auto companies have their parts built overseas or in Mexico, some are owned in part by foreign companies (Daimler Chrysler), and food is coming in by the bundles from Chile and Mexico. Heck, maybe that is the solution to our immigrant labor problem. If NAFTA continues as is, much of the farms here won’t be needed unless protected with subsidies and tarriffs.

  31. OVD,

    I see that nearly fifty percent of the comments on this article are kral’s. Mostly just liberal educrat garbage.

    kral,

    A little enlightenment:

    Prior to 2779 the DES forms for applying for social service benefits advised the applicant that they were not required to identify their legal status. So your argument that non-legals are proscribed from acquiring the benefits is totallly bogus.

    America has the most liberal legal immigration policy in the world. We allow more legal immigration and offer more options for the types of immigrants than anyone else, so do not paint this picture that we are trying to keep some type of purity by not allowing others in.

    As to securing the border, we can. The areas in southern California with a wall has had a 95% reduction in illegal border crossings. The Yuma sector has seen similar results. Israel, South Korea, prisons, the White House, probably your home, my senior development, etc. all have walls – and they work 95% of the time.

    The reason the Border Patrol is having trouble recruiting is the policies that have had those people placing their lives on the line for a government that will not allow them to do their job. My son was going to apply – an ex-marine – and decided against it for that reason. It is more dangerous with less support than either a police officer or a prison guard.

    As to the financial picture, there is no study that takes into account the total costs of illegal immigration. It is impossible to demonstrate the costs of increased insurance premiums due to the increase of criminal activity and automobile damage and theft. The City of Phoenix report that 80% of all new crime in the city since 2000 was committed by illegal aliens is typical and very alarming.

    As to the health factors, there are now thousands of cases of leprosy in America due to the illegal immigration problem. The TB, STD, in addition to the closure of medical vacilities as a result of the illegals cannot be a positive for our society.

    Remittances are negative factor in our economic system. Our system is based on the flow-thru of employment income. The 8 to 1 multiplier of private enterprise money is the foundational basis of the free enterprise system and remittances eliminate seven of the eight multipliers. No matter how you cut it, that is a cost.

  32. Tell me one country in the world that ever has had totally secure, impenetrable borders. Tell me precisely what difference to the bottom line it makes whether the source is from Column A or from Column B. Tell me what reason there is on earth to believe a fence can be built on this mountainous border permeated with arroyos and ravines. What should it be made of? How high should it be? How deep should it go? Please, be precise. What will make it permanently impassable, over, under, around, and through? When it ends, what’s to stop someone from going around it?

    And now tell me: If the problem originates in NAFTA’s destruction of jobs in Mexico and Central America, shouldn’t the solution have something to do with NAFTA?

    Please justify your priorities. We are spending $12 Billion a week to accomplish nothing that I can see in Iraq. If you’re so horribly concerned about immigrants, and if we’re going to be spending it anyway,
    don’t you think we should instead be spending $12 Billion a week to make Mexico able to support Mexicans and America able–once again–to support Americans (by not offshoring our jobs and paying 1 CEO all the revenues of a corporation that used to support hundreds of workers)?

    Tell me why a fence (ahahahahhaaaa!) isn’t just a full-employment plan for Bush donors? Persuade me.

    Hey, with “free trade,” shouldn’t all the remittances be a boon to America because all those Mexicans at home are (we’re told) happily buying American exports? Gee. I guess the Republicans lied to us again about that, huh. NAFTA isn’t enriching anybody but the top 1% of the US, Mexican, and Canadian populations. THAT’s the problem. And THAT’s where you should be aiming your guns instead of flapping your jaws about so-called “illegals.” As if you give a damn about the rule of law when it inconveniences YOU. As if YOU wouldn’t claim the God-given RIGHT to survive no matter what you had to do.

    I’m not sure what makes me sicker: your stupid gullibility and the ease with which you can be manipulated, or your selfish, mean, vindictive, miserly, racist, xenophobic, self-deluded hypocrisy.

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