Arizona State Senate Vote Detail on SB 1322

Here is today’s vote detail on State Senate Bill 1322:

Here is the bill summary:

Purpose: Requires a city with a population of over 200,000 persons to furnish all municipal services with an anticipated cost of greater than $50,000 via a service contract that has been entered into through open and competitive bidding.

Background: The governing body of a city or town, may, by ordinance, create the office of city or town manager, and appoint a person to fill that office.

Cities are responsible for providing services for the benefit of the public or its residents, including all related internal management services, support services, enterprise and fee-funded services and administrative services including municipal judges, police services, municipal firefighters, 911 operators, tax collection and audit enforcement services.

There is no anticipated fiscal impact to the state General Fund associated with this legislation.

My guess is that several Republican Senators just invited a Primary challenge in 2012. Republicans Rich Crandall, John McComish and John Nelson voted with the Democrats AGAINST the bill.

 

 

 


Comments

  1. An explanation says

    I have yet to hear a valid explanation of two things.
    1.) How the overall costs to implement and manage these processes will save taxpayer dollars.
    2.) How the state can complain about Federal intrusion, local control and unfunded mandates, and then justify turning around and doing the same thing to cities.

    • Agreed. The legislature just continues to pile more mandates onto the cities. If these people wanted to dictate city policy they should have run for city council.

      • Sam Gerard says

        TB the cities are a ‘creation’ of the State, and thus responsible for their actions as such. Cities exist, like the State, for the benefit of the people. NOT the other way around.

        Read Radiant Blade’s very good explanation below! This is not a mandate, it is a protection for the people’s money.

        • Sam,

          You’re missing the point. I can’t imagine anyone would not favor competitive bidding. The question, for instance, is who should make the decision for the city of Glendale on their policies — the state or the city of Glendale?

          The conservative position in this case would be to support local governments making local decisions. As conservatives we have to be consistent in applying these principles. You can’t complain when the feds dump on the states but say it’s ok when the states dump on cities and townships. We have to stop overreaching government at every level regardless of whether we agree with one particular bill or not.

          • I can see you got it, this is a city issue. Also Q&A how much are we saving, who are we refering to, what Dept. are we talking about, who is going to check their qualifications, if an issue comes up who will be responsible. I want an in depth, accurate, and TRUTHFUL Full Report.

    • Sam Gerard says

      To answer Q#1, The bidding process will bring about lower costs for projects, because they will be subject to open meeting laws for the process of the bidding. Further, there will be a big spotlight on the process of awarding contracts. No more cronyism from elected officials to their buddies of frivolous ‘public works’ projects, which are FAR too often, anything BUT!!

      • Sam …..it’s not a fact that it will bring about lower cost. The thought is that it will. Have you ever seen how many change orders a contract vendor will submit on every little thing? Then where is the savings? I know for a FACT that in my 15 years of service we always had to get 3 quotes from the public sector. If that is not open bids I don’t know what is.

        I agree with you about the politicians and their cronyies. But don’t mix all of the employees in with them. I think we deserve a little better as we can’t lie cheat and steal like a politician without going to jail.

      • Eric DeWitt says

        And the cost of the bidding process is? $300.000.00 for a $75,000.00 project?

        • The problem with this is everybody is missing the point. This bill allows private corporations to use, abuse and mis-handle ALL city equipment. People are not seeing what this bill allows. It allows private business to come in and use all city equipment, being exempt for any damage, use or misuse of such equipment. Therefore, costing the city maintenance and repairs, whereas now, all employees are accountable. Just saying OOPS is not acceptable.
          As KC stated above, all contractors submid change order after change order thus increasing costs. My fear is, once a bid is accepted, how many of these private businesses or contractors will come bac and say, well we need this?
          Who is going to oversee this and monitor this?
          What is the quality of work going to be?
          Where is the accountability?
          If streets work is contracted out and is sub-standard to current procedures, this leaves the City liable. WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THAT? THE TAX PAYERS!!!!!!
          This may seem like I’m reaching, but give someone an inch, they will take a mile. Especially when it comes to money. My point is…. bid out for a service of $50 – $150K project or service. Right?

          SOMEONE ANSWER THIS….HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO MAN THE CITY’S FIRE STATIONS FOR ONE DAY??!!

          HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO MAN OUR POLICE STATIONS FOR ONE DAY?
          What are they going to do, close some stations? Maybe none? Place that service on-call as the other services they are aiming to?
          Regardless, it is a service. Who is to judge which is most cost effective when there is no accountability?

          Passing this bill is allowing private industry to have too much control. The rich will get richer and poorer will get poorer because those employers can abuse, mistreat and fire at will. Whatever it takes to save them a penny. AT THAT TIME, THE PEOPLE WILL HAVE NO SAY. IT WILL NO LONGER BE A DEMOCRACY BUT A DICTATORSHIP. This bill is the beginning of taking our rights away from us.

          The politicians in favor of this bill are power hungry and not thinking about the long term effects this will have.

          Why don’t the politians stop pointing fingers at the City and look what created this problem. THE LENDERS AND MORTGAGE companies who went after a FAST and INSURED dollar. As a result, we are all paying for it.

          The City has reduced staff. Employee’s are taking up to 6 days furlough per year to help compensate on top of no wage, merit or cost of living increases. Has this been brought to the medias attention?

          NO! Sal Diciccio is only telling you what he wants you to hear. Janet Brewer and Sal Diciccio, whould perform an audit with their own funds before making such a monumental, costly and possibly, diasterous decision.

          This bill needs to be vetoed!!!!!!
          There are too many unaswered questions and holes. Bottom line.

    • Sal is in someone’s pocket. That is for sure. People need to start taking a good, long hard look at him and his buddies.

  2. Radiant Blade says

    @An Explanation

    Your #2 question is quite easily explained: ALL power flows from the states. The states delegated power to the the federal government (hence it’s a government of limited power). Also, cities and counties exist at the pleasure of the state. Should the Arizona legislature so decide, it could dissolve all cities and counties and rule the entire state as it sees fit. Check out the Arizona constitution. Most, if not all, other states are the same. So, basically, state governments SHOULD be telling both the local and federal governments what to do. Those who claim that there’s some kind of hypocisy simply don’t understand what they’re talking about and they fundantally don’t understand the relationship between the states and their localities and the states and the federal government.

    • Sam Gerard says

      Great Response Radiant Blade! Only people who don’t want cities to be transparent and open would oppose this process.

    • Radiant Blade……So why are they writting the bill to only affect Phoenix and Tuscon? Why not all cities …why not apply it to the state itself. They are just as guilty.

  3. Arizona Taxpayer’s Action Committee will gladly accept donations to be used to support candidates in 2012 who WILL advocate for taxpayers and NOT for their friends who serve on city councils. Donate NOW

  4. Wow Radiant Blade – what district do you represent?
    State Legislators dont have any more right to think they are royalty endowed with omnicient wisdom than congress or city councilmen. The state legislators are just as corrupt, out of touch and stupid as the rest of our elected Royalty. TEA PARTY ALERT – call your legislator and ask them why they voted a certain way on a bill and see if you get an answer. Better than that, ask them how a bill got its start and they will lie and give you some song and dance about process and ideas from the people. The legislators sit around, meet with lobbyists and keep score so they can collect checks from lobbyist buddies when the leg is out of session.
    As soon as they are sworn in at the AZ leg they become compromised because the people that came before them teach them to be arrogant and insulated. They deliberate in closed caucus to hide the horse trading and deals they make with each other that have very little to do with the will of the people. 90 percent of the activity is dictated by lobbyists and power brokers and every one works hard to put on a show of legitimacy while they are just sneaking around cutting their deals because the public is too stupid to ask the right questions. And when the public does ask questions, the legislators hide behind process (that they make up) and petty beauracrats that are there to insulate them from the public.
    PASS A REAL BUDGET!!!!!!!!!!!!
    They cant work on this because they havent cut all their deals yet, so all the other nonsense is to buy time while they are horse trading in private to get their little cut of the budget pie.

  5. The people who voted for this bill likely never served in elected municipal office – or have forgotten what it was like to do so. I can assure you that cities face the realities of revenue streams and operating and capital expenditures EVERY DAY. To presume from the capital that the legislature knows better how to curb spending rather than city managers do is sheer hogwash. Apparently Radiant Blade (above) has never had the privilege of serving in an office closest to the people. Trust me – when you are that close to the expenditures of millions of dollars, people aren’t shy about making their voices heard. And if it is necessary, changing horses in the middle of the stream. The arrogance of the legislature in this bill is AMAZING. Somehow this has to dovetail nicely into the state house’s desire to raid state shared revenue in order to compensate for their own inability to make the tough budget cuts. McComish and Nelson got this one right.

  6. Hi Popeye,Fred and Tb–you are sooooo correct. this is a terrrrrrrile idea. it will put power into such a small number of people,those whose will award the contracts. can we say corrupt politician? is it looking like chicago to you.? also, remember,as phoenix and tucson go,so will the other cities. I have tried to get info from the LD4 legislators on some of the very issues you raised. I never got a response of ANY value from the senator or legislators.. Radiant Blade–Where exactly is that in the Arizona state constitution?

    • Sam Gerard says

      Pat, Popeye, Fred and Tb, Do you ALL work for a city or county? What is POSSIBLY WRONG with open, competitive bidding? You are patently ignorant of the process. In open bidding there is NO power in the hands of those awarding the contracts. The process controls the power. In fact, they currentl DO have the power, giving contract to their buddies, who then grease their palms.

      Lastly, don’t just ask Radiant Blad to do your work, lazy! Research it for yourself. I will be very soon! Just remember that in Title 11 it defines the counties and La Paz County had to get permission from the State to break off from Yuma County. Think about it!

      • Not a thing wrong with open and competitive bidding. Unless it is a contract for professional services (i.e. Legal representation and the like), Cities already have open processes at much lower threshold amounts than 50K. Again, the assumption here is that city managers and councils with authority over that manager don’t already engage in competitive bidding – so much so, in fact that they need the state house to tell them they must? Yes – I am a former local elected (six years). The County I can’t speak to and in reflection maybe the Legislature could have drafted this bill to apply to counties only. Might have been better that way with the profligate spending Maricopa County and their associate NGO’s and pseudo subs are known for with little to no oversight (e.g., MAG and MCDOT). I am INTIMATELY aware of how this works, but it doesn’t really sound like you are.

      • There is already competitive bidding @ the city. Im a buyer with the water dept and have to get three bids before I can make a purchase and two of those bids must be from a woman, minority, or small business. If you people think that your water bill will be lower if a private company comes in just take a look at Anthem or the deaths of two small children from drinking tainted water in Peoria. Private water companies do not test as much as the city due to cutting into their profit margin.

        • I have to agree Bill, I have had to sit in equal opportunity classes and have someone tell me how I have to get no less than 3 quotes and that I specifically have to get quotes from the woman, minority and small business owners. Regular City employees do not look to over spend, I work on Streets projects and the more I can save on each project the more projects I can have built. I get calls everyday from people wanting sidewalks, sewers, speed humps etc and I hate telling people that I can’t improve their neighborhoods because I don’t have the funding. I walk the project locations and try and find the least costly way to build any project because I have more requests than I have the funding to do.

      • Sam, the City does have open competitive bidding!!! I put projects out for bid all the time and want as many bidders as possible so that I can get lower bids. You just have to be licsensed, bonded and insured to put in a bid. I have more projects than I have funding for so the more bidders, the lower the bids, the more projects I can get completed. The problem I have is that Council members are not engineers and they come up with crap projects that they order us to do! Believe me, there were times in the past that we did not want anything to do with a project but were ordered to do it. More controls need to be on the Council, not us! Give me the power and I will tell Council no for the public on a daily basis!!

  7. Oberserve says

    Rich Crandall, John McComish and John Nelson = Love the League of Cities and Towns lobbyists.

    Funny though. I never hear SA readers complain when Russell Pearce votes with the public employee union lobbies or the Arizona Corporation Commission lobby.

    Let’s have a little consistency here.

  8. Sam Gerard says

    Oberserve, I give you credit for recognizing Crandal, McComish and Nelson’s liberal votes. But WHY the cheap shot at Russell Pearce? Please provide the specific votes about which you are speaking.

  9. Hi Sam–No i am not lazy and no i have never worked for county or city or state or any form of goverment.. If you are going to state a fact about the constitution be able to support where this is in that document. I no longer take a blanket statement like blade runner made as gospel. support it or don’t make it

  10. Another LD20 PC says

    It is starting to get to me everything conservative McComish votes again. I am sick and tired of hearing “It is a poorly written bill and it is unconstitutional”. Lets see if recalling him is unconstitutional, he was elected to vote the way we wanted, not John Mccain. Next time I start a recall pertition. I told Jeff Dial he should have run for senate, and he is doing a bang up job in the legislature.

  11. Sam Gerard, you question someone raising a point about Pearce and his alliances.
    Pearce declared himself the leader of the Tea Party at the legislature. After his election and right before the session started, he held a huge fundraiser for lobbyists of all types, including the union graft agents that we conservatives cant stand.
    Pearce did not hold a town hall to speak to Tea Party groups, he may pick up the phone to a few TP insiders to keep the groups under control, but he is not a man of the people. He spends his time and attention with lobbyists. His kid will cost the state prisons millions and thats just on removing the nazi tatoo on his chest. His kid even lists Pearces address as his home, even as a twenty something adult, wheres the conservative values and record of accomplishment in that kids upbringing?
    Hard working Arizona people dont have those kind of problems!

  12. Debbi Samson says

    Pearce is always speaking at various Tea Party groups! I bet he is probably out in the Valley twice a week speaking at different groups…in and out of his District.

    I got an email from a friend he is speaking at a Tea Party tomorrow.

    People, do your research! You SHOULD already have a copy of the AZ Constitution. Please. Read. It.

    As for this legislation. OPEN – COMPETITIVE – BIDDING. Enough said. If you don’t get it, you never will.

    • There already is open competititive bidding Debbi, I put projects out for bid all the time, with a minimum of 3 bids needed, and as long as you are licsenced, bonded and insured you can bid on any City project! I have never told anyone that they can not bid. I build projects all the time and I need as many bidders as I can get so that the bids come in lower so that I can build as many projects as possible with the little funding my program gets. The problem is not with regular City employees or our process, it is with the Council having too much power to tell us to build projects that make no sense. They are not engineers so they should not be telling us what projects to build, they should be asking us if they are possible and what the cost would be and we should be able to tell them “NO” when the request is stupid. Believe me, there have been several projects that we wanted to say no to but then ordered to do anyway.

      Do you know that 1 out of every 4 bids are appealed by the bidder with the second lowest bid. The appeal process can take 6-24 months to be resolved, so get rid of the City employees and have the sewer bid go wrong, good luck with the crap smell that will back up into your house until the issue is resolved. Oh, and who are you going to call to complain to when there is no one? And by the way, all of us City employees will file for whatever retirement that we are already entitled to and we will be getting paid anyway to work somewhere else and have it not be our problem anymore. Costs will be higher, not lower!

      My brother-in-law is a doctor, he outsorced his billing but the company he used didn’t make any money unless they were collecting on past due debts so to make money they never called anyone about their bills until they were 120 days past due. My brother-in-law had to higher an attorney and pay a certain percentage of the contract to the company to get out of it and bring the job back in house.

  13. Glad to see the guys at the State Capital are hard at work balancing their budget deficit. Oh wait their not they are busy running around telling cites and towns what to do! By the way are they holding themselves to the same standard of $50k bids??? Typical do as I say not as I do. Where is the leadership!

  14. City and County governments are awash in nepotism and political “payback” contracting!

    Pure and simple!

    McComish voted against open bidding legislation for the same reason he voted to allow cities the refusal to enforce immigration law during the last legislative session.

    His major benefactors have a deep financial stake in the corrupt status quo!

    • Carlist –ya need to look at the state and federal folks too. Look at all the crap our own state leaders do. And you trust them more???

  15. The Avenger says

    I have seen Pearce at a few of the Tea Party meetings that I have went to. However, it is very rare that I see that chump Crandall show up even to an LD meeting, unless of course it is around election time.

  16. Hi–I am not sure anyone will read this comment at this point but here it goes. please,go to http://www.desertlamp.com and read what the Tucson Weekly paper got Sen Antenori to admit. Antenori is the sponsor of sb1322. He scares me as much as obama. He really wants to get rid of all city,and county government and run everything from the state because they know better than we in the local areas. I am trying to stop the feds from intrusion into the states,I never thought i would need protection from my own state government. this bill is now in the house. It passed the senate 18-10-2. please, call you representatives and tell them to fix the STATE and leave the cities and counties to we the people. do not pass sb1322.

  17. flamindave says

    Rightwing ignorance is bliss. Yes, I am a public employee and now fearful for my job. If it is outsourced to the private sector I am ruined. The city I work for has competitive bidding for all contracts to the private sector. There is no cronyism involved in this. Never have I seen high level interference in how tax dollars are spent. We always seek the best bang for the buck and yes that sometimes means not awarding the contract to the lowest bidder. I work in IT. If my job is outsourced to the private sector
    I can guarantee you one thing. Every public service you receive will cost more and deliver less. We do not work as public employees hoping to get rich. We are there for the job stablility. All the private sector cares about is the profit margin. If you doubt this maybe you should work at a privatized state prison.

    • To those who support this law.
      I have a couple of comments. If this is so good….then why is it written to only affect Phoenix and Tuscon? If it is such a great idea it should apply to the state and every city in it. The State has proven time and time again they can’t even run their own house so what makes you think they know what they are doing now?
      Another point… why exclude the fire and police departments. Did you ever look at their budgets. The police and fire unions have figured out how to suck the well dry when it comes to a budget.

      I know this from years of experience…..you give a vendor a contract. He will serve his regular customers first and the city second. Why….because he might not have the contract the next year so he has to take care of his daily business first. I can remember a city that had outsourced their phone system that included their microwave system. The vendor was paid a set fee to provide maintenance but in an effort to make more money they would not pull a circuit card and have it repaired. Instead they hid the problem by pulling the wires that made the alarm so no one would know. Vendors don’t have the citys best interest at heart. They have their own! Ask a city how many times a vendor says “oh that is not in the contract” that it is a change order and they want more money. And anyone who says different is evidently a vendor or has no common sense.
      It’s apparent the libs and politicians have their heads in the wrong place. Since they won”t pull them out it’s time to provide them with glass bellybuttons so they can see what they are doing.

      • Lol, I have to agree. My brother in law is a doctor and he tried outsourcing his medical billing. He noticed that he wasn’t getting paid and come to find out the company he was using and the contract between them did not have the company making any money on patients who paid on time. Soooo, the company never called any cliets about their bills until they were 120 days past due so that they could make a percentage on what they collected. He had to bring the job back in house after paying his attorney to get him out of the contract.

        Wait until there is a strike and there is no water, sewer or trash services being performed and your house smells like a sewer from the backup!

        The Police and Fire budgets need to be monitored way more than they are. Police and Fire are totally separate from any other City department. They put their lives on the line granted, but the benefits they get in terms of things they purchase that are a waist of money are crazy!

        If anyone needs to be watched more it is the Council, somehow they order projects to be built that make no sense or cost way too much. I think it might have to do with the fact that none of them are engineers and have no idea of what they are talking about.

    • Beyond that if all of the employees here are let go how does that benefit Arizona? Let’s see, I don’t pay my mortgage so the rest of you get more houses on the foreclosure market, the value of your houses go down as well if you are in the same neighborhoods. I am not taking vacations so less money to the airlines, hotels etc. I am not going out to dinners or movies etc so less money to the local businesses. I am now collecting unemployment and you can believe I will file for whatever City retirement amount I am eligible for for the years of service I already have in!

      Has anyone thought about that? If our jobs are outsourced you will still be paying a lot of us to be working somewhere else for the rest of our lives!!

  18. This should not pass.If you have not read the bill you should This has corruption and failure written on it. This bill allows the winning contractor to use city facilities and city equipment to perform the function. Why is the contractor not responsible for providing their own equipment and facilities. If they are not able to perform the full fuction of said contract they should not be allowed to bid. So contractor abc. gets full use of tax payer funded equipment and facilities. Wow is there not a huge liability with that? Will said contracts be worded so the company can not strike? Like what recently happened with the busses. Could you imagine a water or garbage strike city wide from private contractors. No thank you toronto and other cities went through this I prefer not. Far as I know Municiple employees have to have background checks. Will the private sector probably not. Ok transperancy right now you can get information from municiplalties. Private contractors Do not have to provide that. Once they are awarded a contract you have no way to view what goes where. You might want to take a look at other municipalties that have tried systems like this and have failed and cost us tax payers a lot more. The city has been awarded best run several times for it`s balance of contracting out. Has the state won anything as far as recoginitions of this type. You have to look at his councilman that is stiring the pot and ask what is he really after. He does have ties with contractors etc could be that, could be something else. He is pushing this for a reason and you can believe it has nothing to do with your best interest.
    If you think you will get transparancy from the private sector. Ask your boss to see his books or go into a few local business and ask them.

  19. Regular Tax Paying Person says

    It may be me, but I don’t understand why city employees are not treated the same way “tax payers” are. I pay just as much in taxes as everyone else, why is it that because I chose to work for a city – to try and make it a better place for everyone to live – that the legislature is trying to take my job away. Why do the taxes I pay seem to matter less than a private sector employees’ taxes. I, as a city employee, are paid significantly less than the private sector. I am not complaining about this because this is what I chose to do – why is it so hard for me to just show up to work and make the city you live a better place. Please I would love to hear the explanation. If you really want to trim cities – you should go after tort reform and make it possible for cities to actually dismiss unqualified or incompetant employees as opposed to continuing to pay them for fear of a law suit. That is where the actual waste is – not in competitive bidding or contracts. And no, the competitive bidding process will not solve this issue, as the quality of services will dramatically decline – it all looks good on paper, but the first time your trash isn’t picked up by 7pm who will you call to complain.

  20. Lake pleasant water treatment is the only private run water treatment plant in the city of phoenix, they need to get rid 38,000,000 gallons of bad water in their reservoir… does not sound like cost savings to me.

  21. isnt this redistribution of wealth? You are going to take someone’s good paying job and replace it with a low paying job, putting the guy with the good job out in the street. The people now working these jobs are az residents, nothing in this bill says these companies are from az or the usa.

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