Comments on: Uncoupling responsibility and liability http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/ Arizona Politics, News, Commentary and Information with a Blatantly Conservative Worldview Presented by an Alliance of Writers, Activists, Consultants and Government Insiders. Sat, 31 Jul 2010 06:26:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: todd http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-211125 todd Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:12:42 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-211125 wanumba - go look up the definition of sea level before you further embarrass yourself. wanumba – go look up the definition of sea level before you further embarrass yourself.

]]> By: The Klute http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-211103 The Klute Sat, 07 Nov 2009 01:47:57 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-211103 "The arctic ice cap melts every year almost completely by mid-August. Does the sea level rise every summer with those millions of tons of ice melted into the Arctic Sea?" When the ice in your glass of water melts does it overfill your glass? No, it does not. This is, I believe, 3rd grade physical science. So considering the Arctic ice cap is OVER WATER AND NOT LAND why would the sea level rise? Looks like you not only need to take ENG101, but also also PHS110. Here's a class schedule for you: http://www.maricopa.edu/academic/ccta/curric/search_subject.php?loc=PHS110 “The arctic ice cap melts every year almost completely by mid-August. Does the sea level rise every summer with those millions of tons of ice melted into the Arctic Sea?”

When the ice in your glass of water melts does it overfill your glass? No, it does not. This is, I believe, 3rd grade physical science.

So considering the Arctic ice cap is OVER WATER AND NOT LAND why would the sea level rise?

Looks like you not only need to take ENG101, but also also PHS110.

Here’s a class schedule for you:

http://www.maricopa.edu/academic/ccta/curric/search_subject.php?loc=PHS110

]]> By: wanumba http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-211067 wanumba Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:03:55 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-211067 Uh, Todd. The global sea level has an absolute value that is determined by the total volume of water in the ocean, nothing else. It doesn't matter if that volume is being shaken or stirred. Rise and fall of sea level is determined only by adding new water or taking away water. The arctic ice cap melts every year almost completely by mid-August. Does the sea level rise every summer with those millions of tons of ice melted into the Arctic Sea? Uh, Todd.
The global sea level has an absolute value that is determined by the total volume of water in the ocean, nothing else.
It doesn’t matter if that volume is being shaken or stirred. Rise and fall of sea level is determined only by adding new water or taking away water.
The arctic ice cap melts every year almost completely by mid-August. Does the sea level rise every summer with those millions of tons of ice melted into the Arctic Sea?

]]> By: todd http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-211053 todd Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:10:03 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-211053 wanumba some of these measurements have been being taken for 150 years. unless you are suggesting that sea level is not measurable, i find you argument to be non-sensical. i also find it odd that you are questioning the basic ability of scientist to measure something like sea-level. again, you have a simple view of physics if you think the explanation is gravity-defying. as i pointed out above your high school level knowledge of physic is not accounting for turbulence caused by variable currents, trade winds, air temperature, atmospheric pressure, water temperature, and coastal features such as shoreline material, shape and depth. as usual, you are guilty of what you accuse others of, trying to make facts stick with your political ideology and disparaging people you disagree with. wanumba
some of these measurements have been being taken for 150 years. unless you are suggesting that sea level is not measurable, i find you argument to be non-sensical. i also find it odd that you are questioning the basic ability of scientist to measure something like sea-level.

again, you have a simple view of physics if you think the explanation is gravity-defying. as i pointed out above your high school level knowledge of physic is not accounting for turbulence caused by variable currents, trade winds, air temperature, atmospheric pressure, water temperature, and coastal features such as shoreline material, shape and depth.

as usual, you are guilty of what you accuse others of, trying to make facts stick with your political ideology and disparaging people you disagree with.

]]> By: wanumba http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-211043 wanumba Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:18:57 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-211043 One will notice two things. Almost all coasts are seeing sea level rises, so wanumba is wrong on that count, and also a small number of coasts have seen decreases, demonstrating wanumba’s grasp of the ‘laws of Physics’ are not very solid. ................... New branch of physics, gravity-defying water. Surf's UP! But not everywhere ... surf's down ... at some places. But surf's up and down twice a day everywhere, so how does one figure out how to figure that out when tides are up in a DOWN area and down in an UP area? And if ya can't figure out how to make the water level in the aggregate match the printouts, instead of questioning the computer analysis, (Rule No. 1 of computers: Garbage IN, Garbage OUT) then get annoyed and disparage the bystanders for being inconvenient. Neo-Lysenkoism in all its glory. One will notice two things. Almost all coasts are seeing sea level rises, so wanumba is wrong on that count, and also a small number of coasts have seen decreases, demonstrating wanumba’s grasp of the ‘laws of Physics’ are not very solid.
……………….
New branch of physics, gravity-defying water.
Surf’s UP! But not everywhere … surf’s down … at some places. But surf’s up and down twice a day everywhere, so how does one figure out how to figure that out when tides are up in a DOWN area and down in an UP area? And if ya can’t figure out how to make the water level in the aggregate match the printouts, instead of questioning the computer analysis, (Rule No. 1 of computers: Garbage IN, Garbage OUT) then get annoyed and disparage the bystanders for being inconvenient.
Neo-Lysenkoism in all its glory.

]]> By: todd http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-210948 todd Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:18:02 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-210948 Anyone interested in the actual facts go here: http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends.shtml "The Center for Operational Oceanographic Products and Services has been measuring sea level for over 150 years, with tide stations operating on all U.S. coasts through the National Water Level Observation Network." One will notice two things. Almost all coasts are seeing sea level rises, so wanumba is wrong on that count, and also a small number of coasts have seen decreases, demonstrating wanumba's grasp of the 'laws of Physics' are not very solid. Anyone interested in the actual facts go here:
http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends.shtml

“The Center for Operational Oceanographic Products and Services has been measuring sea level for over 150 years, with tide stations operating on all U.S. coasts through the National Water Level Observation Network.”

One will notice two things. Almost all coasts are seeing sea level rises, so wanumba is wrong on that count, and also a small number of coasts have seen decreases, demonstrating wanumba’s grasp of the ‘laws of Physics’ are not very solid.

]]> By: wanumba http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-210911 wanumba Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:34:27 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-210911 Of course. Change the subject, make noise, attack the commenter, get nasty. We're sort of old-fashioned. SO many people mess with the numbers, live and die by fallable computer modeling that we have learned that the only way to find out what's going on is to go to the coast and LOOK. We used to live in a town which is over 300 years old and is built on bedrock. Piers, docks, floats and houses sit just above high tide mark. They're still there, 300 years, no change. Go complain to the ocean, it's the seven seas fault they aren't conforming to computer projections, not mine. Of course. Change the subject, make noise, attack the commenter, get nasty.
We’re sort of old-fashioned. SO many people mess with the numbers, live and die by fallable computer modeling that we have learned that the only way to find out what’s going on is to go to the coast and LOOK.
We used to live in a town which is over 300 years old and is built on bedrock. Piers, docks, floats and houses sit just above high tide mark.
They’re still there, 300 years, no change. Go complain to the ocean, it’s the seven seas fault they aren’t conforming to computer projections, not mine.

]]> By: todd http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-210906 todd Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:00:02 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-210906 "If there was any actual rise in ocean water levels, it would be known." It is known and it is a verified fact. It is also known what specific temperatures in certain areas mean in terms of future sea levels based on evidence from the past. "Equilibrium of liquids." Not in the presence of turbulence. You have no idea what you are talking about. “If there was any actual rise in ocean water levels, it would be known.”

It is known and it is a verified fact. It is also known what specific temperatures in certain areas mean in terms of future sea levels based on evidence from the past.

“Equilibrium of liquids.”

Not in the presence of turbulence. You have no idea what you are talking about.

]]> By: wanumba http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-210904 wanumba Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:27:31 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-210904 It's very easy to verify that there have been no sea level rise, therefore at least one claim is demonstrably easy to verify that it's false. The Arctic and Antarctic ice caps melt and refreeze every single year, gazillions of cubic tons of ice to water, water to ice right on schedule with the seasons. When the Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing and visa-versa. Harbormasters around the world as part of their daily jobs record high and low tide levels twice a day. Millions of people own homes on the water, docks, sea walls, causeways, all sorts of construction interfacing sea and land exists from entire cities to a single float. If there was any actual rise in ocean water levels, it would be known. And due to the laws of Physics which transcend politics, thankfully, it is not possible for one location to have a rise in levels when no other locations have a corresponding rise. Equilibrium of liquids. And islands in the Pacific or Indian Ocean that report a rise in sea levels should be required to disclose pertinent info like their economy depends on a big export business in garden topsoil. Their sea levels aren't rising, their elevation is SINKING. CLimate Change/Global Warming is Neo-Lysenkoism. The Soviet opportunist Lysenko mixed his pseudo-scientific theory "agro-biology" with radical Marxist politics and destroyed Soviet agriculture. Ominously, real Soviet scientists, agronomists and agricultural experts were harrassed, intimidated and stifled, including a few actually sent to the Gulag to shut them up. Climate Change/Global Warming is a POLITICAL STRATEGY to push socialist/Marxist controls over people's lives and production. It’s very easy to verify that there have been no sea level rise, therefore at least one claim is demonstrably easy to verify that it’s false.
The Arctic and Antarctic ice caps melt and refreeze every single year, gazillions of cubic tons of ice to water, water to ice right on schedule with the seasons. When the Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing and visa-versa. Harbormasters around the world as part of their daily jobs record high and low tide levels twice a day. Millions of people own homes on the water, docks, sea walls, causeways, all sorts of construction interfacing sea and land exists from entire cities to a single float. If there was any actual rise in ocean water levels, it would be known.
And due to the laws of Physics which transcend politics, thankfully, it is not possible for one location to have a rise in levels when no other locations have a corresponding rise. Equilibrium of liquids.
And islands in the Pacific or Indian Ocean that report a rise in sea levels should be required to disclose pertinent info like their economy depends on a big export business in garden topsoil. Their sea levels aren’t rising, their elevation is SINKING.
CLimate Change/Global Warming is Neo-Lysenkoism. The Soviet opportunist Lysenko mixed his pseudo-scientific theory “agro-biology” with radical Marxist politics and destroyed Soviet agriculture. Ominously, real Soviet scientists, agronomists and agricultural experts were harrassed, intimidated and stifled, including a few actually sent to the Gulag to shut them up.
Climate Change/Global Warming is a POLITICAL STRATEGY to push socialist/Marxist controls over people’s lives and production.

]]> By: todd http://sonoranalliance.com/2009/11/05/uncoupling-responsibility-and-liability/comment-page-1/#comment-210896 todd Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:24:33 +0000 http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=5791#comment-210896 Mu understanding of libertarian environmental thought has been that instead of government regulation of pollution that the issue should be handled through tort law so that those who actually damage the property or health of others would be responsible for remedy. Now it appears that this remedy is not acceptable because the environment is so complex that actual responsibility for an outcome is hard to trace back to an individual cause. It seems to me that this argument supports the idea of regulating pollutants at the source since it would undoubtedly prove nearly impossible to prove responsibility in all but the most simple cases. Mu understanding of libertarian environmental thought has been that instead of government regulation of pollution that the issue should be handled through tort law so that those who actually damage the property or health of others would be responsible for remedy. Now it appears that this remedy is not acceptable because the environment is so complex that actual responsibility for an outcome is hard to trace back to an individual cause. It seems to me that this argument supports the idea of regulating pollutants at the source since it would undoubtedly prove nearly impossible to prove responsibility in all but the most simple cases.

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