YOU WANT AN EXAMPLE OF ANOTHER JURISDICTION AND THE RESULT OF ENFORCEMENT? Here is another jurisdiction that took a zero tolerance to those in this country illegally. Prince William County announced that violent crimes decreased by a whopping 22% in 2007, demonstrating once again the value of protecting the quality of life by having local law enforcement participate in efforts to reduce the number of illegal aliens unlawfully present in our communities. The previous year, more than half of all murders in the county were committed by illegal aliens. By encouraging illegal aliens to depart, and ensuring that those who do not and are arrested for state and local crimes are turned over to the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement for deportation, we’ve addressed to some degree an important public safety issue that few states and localities have the courage to even consider, much to the detriment of their own residents.
I cannot believe what I am reading on those defending “illegal” aliens and ignoring the facts. Why are some ignoring the deaths, maimings, rapes and billions in cost? Is it Profits over Patriotism? Political power that comes to the left? Are the deaths, maimings, rapes, molestations of our children and billions in cost just collateral damage for the open border or cheap labor advocates?
Just recently “Chief” Harris of Phoenix PD held a Press Conference about the reduction in crime and stated he did not know why it was down. It does not take a high IQ to know why. With employer sanctions, Sheriff enforcing the law, along with the economy 30% have left Arizona.
I wonder why Phoenix is 2nd in the world in kidnappings only behind Mexico City. I can tell you that if you’re the victim of an illegal alien, statistics don’t mean much. If it is you or your the family member, like the family of Officer Erfle who was murdered when an illegal alien was released instead of being deported, or the family of Officer Figueroa who was killed by an illegal alien or Bob Miller who lost his son, and the list goes on.
You want to hear from some real victims of Sanctuary Cities, the hurt, the pain, please go to this web site and watch. http://www.investigativecommunications.com/
Citizens have a constitutional right to expect the protection of federal and state laws which prohibit unauthorized activities by non-citizens and are denied equal protection law enforcement, police departments or a magistrate fails to enforce those laws.
You ought to be concerned about the cost to Arizona taxpayers in the cost to medicate, incarcerate and educate illegals ($1 billion annually in K-12 alone). You ought to be concerned about the deaths, maimings, rapes, kidnappings, home invasions, not to mention jobs taken from Americans and wages suppressed.
The issue has been debated many times. What part of the Rule of Law, Citizens Constitutional rights, the Oath of Office, or the Constitution do you not agree with?
We held a hearing in Judiciary Committee on Warrants, who’s job is it? What we should have held hearings on is Sanctuary Cities; the greatest threat to safe neighborhoods and billions in cost to the taxpayer. Not to mention in violation of federal law!! Mayors and Police Chiefs that encourage or have policies that restrict the enforcement of immigration laws are complicit in the deaths, maimings of citizens and police officers and the billions in cost to the taxpayers. I did hold hearings in Appropriations and had victims, law enforcement officers, Sheriff Joe, Sheriff Babeu, Maricopa County Attorney, by video Congressman King, and Victims of 9-11 families, and others in an ALL DAY hearing. The other side was invited and refused to come and give public testimony on their support of sanctuary policies and their trip to testify before congress as part of the Al Sharpton fan club. I will be glad to provide the video to anyone who cares enough to ask, as they did not bother to attend and hear from law enforcement and victims directly about the impact of this illegal alien invasion. (over 8 hours of testimony)
How many more have do die, or how many more in billions of dollars cost to the taxpayer before we stop all sanctuary policies??????????? I PLEDGE TO CONTINUE UNTIL THESE “ILLEGAL” POLICES ARE ABOLISHED; IF WE WILL ELIMINATE ALL SANCTUARY POLICIES IN THIS STATE, THE RESULT WILL BE LESS CRIME, LOWER TAXES.
Endorsements: 75% to 80% of Arizonans, Arizona State Republican Party, Maricopa County Republican Party, Sheriff Joe, Sheriff Babeu, County Attorney Andrew Thomas, Arizona African American Club, Albert Rodriguez of a national Hispanic group “You Don’t Speak For Me”, Anna Gains a Hispanic and her group of “American Citizen’s United”, NAILEM a neighborhood group of several thousand, Phoenix Law Enforcement Association (2600 officers), Border Patrol 2544 (over 3500 Arizona border patrol officers, several other law enforcement groups that support but have not taken official action. Enforce our laws and put America and Americans First.
Unsanctioned entry into the United States is a crime.
8 USC Sec. 1644: (“No local ordinance, rule, or measure shall stop law enforcement officers from enforcement of this section”) Referring to immigration violations.
I sat ashen as I watched the news reports. Several chiefs of police, including Phoenix’s Jack Harris and Mesa’s Gascon, stood at a Press Conference and publicly refused to enforce the law. Less than a month after the brutal murder of a police officer at the hands of an illegal alien, they snub the opportunity to make necessary changes, all for the sake of political correctness, while citizens are killed, maimed, raped, the cost to educate, medicate and incarcerate are in the billions for Arizona, plus, jobs taken from Americans.
9-11 Terrorist Attack: Had our immigration laws been enforced 9-11 probably would have been averted. 4 of the 5 organizers and pilots had been contacted by law enforcement prior to the attack (one still had the ticket in the glove box of his car at the airport), and had they been arrested on immigration violations, 9-11 probably would have been prevented!!
When is enough, enough??? DEATH & MAIMINGS OF POLICE OFFICERS & CITIZENS BY ILLEGAL ALIENS: http://www.investigativecommunications.com/
Enforcement by our law enforcement officers, removing the policies that restrict their ability to ask and act (a sanctuary policy is simply placing restrictions of enforcing our laws). Removing those restrictions would have the greatest affect on public safety of all the legislation we have passed to date.
Arizona: Dept of Justice and FBI reports:
Phoenix, #2 in the world in kidnappings, home invasions
Phoenix, 3rd most violent city in America
Phoenix #1 in crime overall
Arizona the home invasion, car jacking, identity theft capitol of the world
#2 in auto theft
1/3 of federal prisoners are illegal aliens for serious crimes
Over $1 billion annual cost for illegals in K-12
Drugs
1 million gang members in the U.S. mostly made up of illegal aliens
1 million sex crime victims by illegal aliens
If you want loser taxes, less crime, smaller classrooms, short emergency room lines and safer neighborhoods ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS.
“If it be asked, what is the most sacred duty and the greatest source of our security in a Republic? The answer would be an inviolable respect for the Constitution and Laws” - Alexander Hamilton.
A Congressional Report: CONFIRMING THE THREAT AT THE SOUTHWEST BORDER; on crime, violence, drugs, gangs, terrorist, sex predators coming into America among the 4 million to 10 million entering illegally ANNUALLY!!!! Over 9,000 people killed in the U.S. each year at the hands of illegal aliens; 25 each day, 12 by stabbings and shootings & 13 by DUI or other vehicular crimes.
Death and maimings of police officers and citizens by illegal aliens (short list)
* Phoenix Officer Shane Figueroa
* Tracy from Highland High in Gilbert
* Child serial rapist in Chandler
* Phoenix Officer Glidewell (shot in chest)
* 15 year old raped by school janitor in Scottsdale
* 15 year old kidnapped and raped in Guadalupe
* Phoenix Officer Nick Erfle
Phoenix Officer Marc Atkinson;
Phoenix Officer Robert Sitek;
Kris Eggle-park ranger in southern Arizona;
Border Patrol Agent James Epling;
Maricopa County Deputy Sean Pearce critically wounded while serving homicide warrant
Maricopa County Deputy Lew Argetsinger shot while executing a search warrant for homicide;
Sgt. Manuel H. Tapia was shot by a drug suspect;
DPS Officer Robert K. Martin, murdered by illegal alien 19-year-old ex-convict;
Agent Richard Fass, 37, of the United States Drug Enforcement Agency, murdered;
Agent Alexander Kirpnick, 27, Border Patrol, murdered;
Jason Schechterle suffered fourth-degree burns when his patrol care went up in flames after being struck by a taxi – the driver was an illegal alien.
Gilbert mother killed by illegal alien fleeing from Mesa PD (had prior arrest and not deported).
Jason, Decorated Iraq war veteran stabbed in his own front yard by illegal alien.
Mother “legal immigrant” killed by illegal alien trying to ram Sheriff’s Deputy’s car in Phoenix.
Illegal, 17, runs down hero cop – juvenile released by Border Patrol 10 days earlier
Murder suspect – an illegal with driver’s license – now faces 41 counts
Illegal alien accused of triple homicide
3 illegals beat pregnant woman – mayhem rampage
5 illegals face deportation after killing principal
Unlawful immigrants piloted pickup truck that smashed into Florida woman’s car
Decapitated heads of two police officials found in Acapulco, Mexico
Feds arrest 2,100 Operation Return to Sender sends agents across country to target violent criminal aliens
Cop murder spotlights crisis of killer aliens – No government agency tracks crimes by illegals, not even attacks on police
Shotgun preteen vs. illegal alien home invaders – Home invasion gone wrong for criminals
Illegals kill deputy in New Year’s Eve hit and run
State Trooper Shot to Death in Tennessee by Hispanic Drug Dealers
Day laborer from Guatemala charged with killing girlfriend’s baby
Utah gunman, 18, was Muslim from Bosnia – Killed 5 in crowded shopping mall
Illegal detained in death of “Christmas Story” director Bob Clark, son die in collision
DUI illegal kills pedestrian week after given probation – Hit-and-run
Woman involved in accident dies from injuries by illegal immigrant
Sniper, John Lee Malvo, required by law to be immediately deported. Instead they released John Lee Malvo upon the unsuspecting American Public. He and his cohort killed 10 people.
Tanee Natividad, a high school student, was murdered by an illegal
Darlene Squires’s disabled teenage daughter and another disabled girl were raped by three members of a Salvadoran street gang. Both victims are deaf.
David March, a Los Angeles County Sheriff, was killed during a routine traffic stop. The driver was a dangerous Mexican drug dealer, Armando Garcia, who had been deported twice and has a long history of violent crime.
Eighteen-year-old Tricia Taylor lost both her legs above the knees by drunken driver Jose Carcamo who had 17 violations since 1995.
Walter Contreras Valenzuela, a 10-year-old boy was murdered by an illegal alien from Honduras.
An illegal alien killed Kimberley Hope while trying to steal her car.
Five year old Ana Cerna was killed by an illegal alien.
Joseph Crummy was murdered by illegal alien Jesus Hernandez in Utah.
Amber Merkle was only 8, killed in a wreck caused by illegal alien Arturo Lupian.
Vinessa Hoera, 23, was brutally raped and murdered by an illegal alien from Guatemala, Faustino Chavez who apparently was angry when his advances toward her were not received positively. 9,000 MORE EACH YEAR.
Study: 1 million sex crimes by illegals; More than 100 sex offenders crossing border daily Deborah Schurman-Kauflin: Based on a one-year in-depth study, a researcher estimates there are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each.
5,000 to 10,000 cross illegally into the U.S. every single day, and 1 out of 10 already have felony convictions.
WHY DO WE STRUGGLE WITH WHAT IS RIGHT? Another Police Officer killed by an illegal alien. Officer Shane Figueroa. I have introduced 5 years in a row legislation to allow Police Officers to enforce our laws and remove the political handcuffs placed on them by our local politicians and chiefs. Our citizens deserve no less, our law enforcement have the authority, and must allow them to do their job.
My personal background in law enforcement has given me a unique and in-touch perspective with the needs and hazards experienced by rank-and-file police officers. PLEA understands the danger of ignoring illegal immigration. The burden of blind-eye police department policies and open-border philosophies were paid for with the lives of not only law enforcement officers, but many other good citizens as the danger clearly spread beyond law enforcement into our communities with more lives being lost. The quality of life in our state is being sacrificed for political correctness. Phoenix Law Enforcement Officers, PLEA, Border Patrol and I stand side by side for the rule of law.
MARK SPENCER President of P.L.E.A., “Mark my words another police officer will be killed as a result of Mayor Gordon’s pretended revision of their policy on when you can ask and when you cannot ask on one’s immigration status. ANOTHER POLICE OFFICER, HUSBAND, FATHER, AMERICAN KILLED BY AN ILLEGAL ALIEN. GOVERNMENT IS COMPLICIT IN THE DEATHS, MAIMINGS AND BILLIONS IN COST TO OUR CITIZENS.
Simply enforce our laws and you will see less crime, lower taxes, smaller class sizes, shorter lines in our emergency rooms and reduced deaths, murders, maimings, drugs, home invasions, car jackings, kidnappings, jobs taken from Americans, reduced wages, an ultimately save the taxpayer billions of dollars. We cannot afford to “NOT” enforce our laws.
Attrition by Enforcement.
THIS IS THE “ONLY” LAW WE PUT CONDITIONS ON BEFORE A POLICE OFFICER CAN ENFORCE, THE ONLY CRIMINALS WE PROTECT BY POLICIES!!!!!!! NO OTHER CRIME OR CRIMINAL GETS THIS PROTECTION BY RESTRICTIVE POLICIES BY OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.
I PLEDGE; TO WORK TO ELIMINATE ALL SANCTUARY POLICIES IN THIS STATE, THE RESULT WILL BE LESS CRIME, LOWER TAXES & SAFER NEIGHBORHOODS.
Our local & national leader’s refusal to enforce U.S. Immigration laws & failure to carry out their constitutional duty to defend this nation from that invasion is guilty of impeachable offenses.
We are sowing the seeds of our own destruction in America today.
I believe in our Constitution, the rule of law, in liberty & freedom. I will not retreat from the defense of our Republic or the protection of our citizens from our enemies foreign or domestic!!!
It doesn’t get much clearer than that.
Thank you Senator Pearce. There is much more work to be done. We must continue to expose the legislators (both D and R) who are more loyal to the CofC than the rights and protection of (lawful) Arizona citizens who put them in office.
There are rally two issues here.
1) Respecting the law, protecting citizens and mourning the fallen law enforcement officers. Everyone should agree on these ideas and ideals. I know I do.
2) What really caused the illegal immigrants to leave ?
” With employer sanctions, Sheriff enforcing the law, along with the economy 30% have left Arizona. ”
That is a true statement, but is misleading.
Rearrange the parts and now we are talking.
Economy, enforcement and sanctions in that order. The economy being 90% of the reason.
The murders mentioned are primarily drug related along with smuggling.
At the risk of going off on a tangent…
You want to stop drug dealers ? Fix the demand side of the equation, not the supply. As long as kids buy the product, the supply will find its way here.
How do we do that ? Hold the parents accountable for the actions of the minor kids, specifically as they relate to the buying and distribution of narcotics. I imagine there would be a few surprise inspections in bedrooms across the state if this were the case. The family unit in this country has gone soft and we can see the result.
(This is a partial repost from another post comment:)
Sen. Pearce notes Prince William County violent crime fell 22% but fails to note that for the first time the county is tracking the immigration status of who they arrested and illegal immigrants made up 2% of those committing violent crimes. Yes, 2%.
A report by the police chief does not include illegal immigration enforcement as a reason for the decline and in fact states it is likely due to decreased satisfaction with police services among Hispanics and African Americans which has resulted in a lower crime reporting rate.
Some note familiar with Prince William County might be shocked to hear one year half of all murders were attributed to illegal immigrants. This is the result of 2 illegal immigrants being charged with 4 murders out of 9 in 2007.
Also, Pearce continues to make the claim the Phoenix is the 2nd kidnapping capital in the world, but no one can seem to find what the actual source or data is for this claim.
The cost to Arizona of educating children of illegal immigrants, and some of these children are in fact US citizens, is not $1 billion a year as Pearce claims, perhaps based on an inflated estimate by the racists group FAIR, but is instead $650 million according to the Pew Hispanic Center.
According to Pew, the CIS claimed decrease is inflated and in fact illegal immigrants are not leaving the country in any unusually high numbers.
Finally, something that has been going on a long time and really needs to stop is Pearce’s claim that a “congressional report” claims “Over 9,000 people killed in the U.S. each year at the hands of illegal aliens; 25 each day, 12 by stabbings and shootings & 13 by DUI or other vehicular crimes.”
In fact, no congressional report exists which makes this claim. What does exist is a 2006 Press Release by Rep. Steve King who claims to have “extrapolated” from a GAO study. However, no study reporting this exists and it was clear that what he used was in fact a misreading of a claim about non-citizens in federal prison. This claim is completely bogus. If you don’t believe me feel free to investigate this and the other claims I reference. There may be even more errors but I simply don’t have the time to lookup everything when there are so many glaring errors.
I urge SA readers to talk to any public school teacher they know and get their take. The teachers I talked to in the spring of 2008 said there was a big enrollment drop earlier that year, largely due to Hispanic children not showing up (they said). That was before the economy tanked, but right as the employer sanctions law kicked in. I have trouble believing the threat of employer sanctions worked so quickly to discourage hiring illegals, but who am I to say?
One more note:
In fact actual researchers who have looked into this conclude illegal immigrants have had no impact on crime rates. As this points out:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1717575,00.html?imw=Y
Between 1994 and 2005 the number of illegal immigrants doubled by violent crime decreased by 35%.
As an interesting side note, the conservative Indiana University economist Eric Rasmusen who is cited in the article as claiming illegal immigrants commit 21% of all crime, later had to reduce his claim to 6% and that is even thought to be too high by many:
http://www.rasmusen.org/t/2008/04/illegal-immigrants-cause-21-of-crime.html
One more note:
In fact actual researchers who have looked into this conclude illegal immigrants have had no impact on crime rates. As this points out:
http://tinyurl.com/mjabx5
Between 1994 and 2005 the number of illegal immigrants doubled by violent crime decreased by 35%.
As an interesting side note, the conservative Indiana University economist Eric Rasmusen who is cited in the article as claiming illegal immigrants commit 21% of all crime, later had to reduce his claim to 6% and that is even thought to be too high by many:
http://tinyurl.com/nkvos5
SA’s spam filters block my posts with full urls, so if you want to see the links i reference, just paste the tinyurl urls below)
One more note:
In fact actual researchers who have looked into this conclude illegal immigrants have had no impact on crime rates. As this points out:
tinyurl.com/mjabx5
Between 1994 and 2005 the number of illegal immigrants doubled by violent crime decreased by 35%.
As an interesting side note, the conservative Indiana University economist Eric Rasmusen who is cited in the article as claiming illegal immigrants commit 21% of all crime, later had to reduce his claim to 6% and that is even thought to be too high by many:
tinyurl.com/nkvos5
Agreed, but at what cost to us? How many crimes have gone unsolved, uninvestigated and delayed reponse to, while Sheriff Joe raids recycling centers and Mesa City Hall?
This is a Federal problem, mostly left unaddressed in Washington. While we grapple locally with the high costs, fiscal and human, of illegal immigrants, our congressmen sit back and use this a polarizing issue to divide us. Real reform must begin there with decisive legislation backed up by a true commitment, still respecting our civil liberties.
Oh, and the cost to build your house just went up 40%.
The percentages and the numbers are actually irrelevant because THERE WOULD BE NO MURDERS OR RAPES OF INNOCENT AMERICAN CITIZENS IF THE ILLEGAL HAD NOT BEEN HERE TO BEGIN WITH.
We should feel safe ‘in our own home’.
As for the comment that it is our fault for buying drugs, that is another really silly argument. Illegal drugs are a business and like many a business that offers samples, unsuspecting and naive children are lured into becoming customers for life! Make it legal, but prevent the solicitation of customers.
I happily live in New York City, which has the lowest crime rate of major U.S. cities and probably the highest proportion of immigrants in the nation. Obviously some of them – though again, probably the proportion of so-called “illegals” is less than elsewhere – are undocumented.
It is too early with such fresh data to make conclusions. Some of you seem unfamiliar with the simple “post hoc” fallacy, that just because two phenomenona happen at the same time, one is the cause of the other.
We should await more data and a clear study that can shed light on the causes of drops in crime. One might, for example, think that worsening economic conditions would lead more people, whatever their immigrant status, to commit property crimes. But that doesn’t seem to have happened anywhere.
Most statistics show that undocumented immigrant populations exhibit a lower crime rate than U.S. citizens or legal immigrants. Obviously, if you can be deported, it would be wise to keep a low profile and avoid contact with the police.
Moreover, most undocumented aliens I know are law-abiding, productive people who make far more substantial contributions to the good of our great nation that the haters and the ignorant rabble on Sonoran Alliance.
I have yet to meet an undocumented immigrant who has been as bad an influence on American life as the hateful, ignorant, and uncouth Russell Pearce.
“THERE WOULD BE NO MURDERS OR RAPES OF INNOCENT AMERICAN CITIZENS IF THE ILLEGAL HAD NOT BEEN HERE TO BEGIN WITH.”
The stupidity of this writer is beyond belief but typical of Sonoran Alliance. Apparently there has never been a murder or rape in American history perpetrated by an American citizen, according to this ignorant, bigoted old woman.
Just because you can find the shift key on your keyboard – I’ll grant that you probably have an eighth-grade education – doesn’t mean everything you “shout” is true.
I am grateful to Sonoran Alliance for exposing loudmouth haters like Iris Lynch (obviously a pseudonym) for the world to see.
The Sheriff says about a third of the jail population is illegal aliens that committed a violent crime. The voters pass every initiative related to enforcement, the legislature makes special appropriations for enforcement despite the recession. Sounds like most people agree this is a real problem.
Cheep labor is no reason to look the other way. Construction or anything else, those are jobs Americans should available have especially in a recession. Every illegal alien is breaking the law just by being in this country. Thankfully, the fact that a few people support law breakers will not stop our elected officials from enforcing the law and the voter supporting increased enforcement.
So I guess no conservatives are bothered that they are being told lies about illegal immigrants. It seems then that the attempt to counter false information by presenting facts in a rational way is simply not productive in this forum.
I have read substantial long -term research (Altemeyer for example) which demonstrates that very conservative people are the most credulous group of people when it comes to statements that support their positions. Unlike most others, they simply display no skepticism when a source makes claims, no matter how improbable, that coincide with their views. I have wondered myself about research like this since I assumed that this was overstated. Having been on SA now for a while I can safely say that I find it to be widely true.
Does it matter to anyone that Pearce could claim 75% of crimes were committed by illegals and most likely people on here would accept this without question and if presented with information that disproved the claim when then say it didn’t matter? Do you want your views to gain support based on lies? Whether it is illegal immigration or health care reform it seems that people on here don’t care.
I read the Senator’s comments with interest.
I thought, moving over to the comment section, that there would be no one willing to argue against reducing illegal immigration. Boy, was I ever wrong!
The liberal edge of our society thinks nothing of endangering our communities, costing us huge dollars in tax support, and harming our health system in defense of illegal immigration. I don’t get it.
IT IS AGAINST THE LAW. Worse, where is the sense of fair play? We welcome so many immigrants to America through our front doors. Why would anyone be willing to give criminal actions an advantage over legal immigrants?
Todd: you pathetic poor little boy. Your insight is nothing short of blind. We’ll send them to your house…looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Wolfy,
I have worked with several employees that work in the Tempe School district, including the elementary schools. In December of ’07, those who I had contact with, told me that many families were leaving, either back to Mexico or other states (like Utah) because of the Employer Sanctions Law. The kids were telling their teachers (and others who worked at the school) that they would not be returning in January (’08).
Now this was the example in this small district, straight from the Tempe school employees, not a politician, not the media, not some “advocate” for legal or illegal immigration. This was the reality, and it continues.
Those who are here know *full well* that this law is in place in Arizona, they have the option of going to other states (i.e. California) for the politicians there to overlook their legal status. These people here in AZ are knowingly breaking the law, are flying under the radar. And they are using false identity to do so, willingly.
Yesterday’s bust at the paper plant is a prime example.
The sanctions worked. It wouldn’t work without the enforcement of those laws. The faltering economy was an obvious help as well, but not the ONLY one as some here opine it to be.
I know there are conservatives here who care about facts and honesty. Is noone willing to stand up and even say “I don’t support illegal immigration but the lies and demagoguery must end?”
Yes, I say there are lies and foo flying from all points. Conservative? Well if you insist. Here’s the deal: It’s ilegal to enter this country without proper process. I say: shoot them all. If I were to be an illegal in any other country what would they do with me Mr?
Oh ny the way Todd, you might have noticed that the majority of the people on this blog “DO NOT SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMIGRATION IN ANY OF OUR UNITED STATES!”
Thank you for your post. It is amazing what people will overlook for their “pet” issue. Statistics don’t matter. Have to have that cheap labor.
“I say: shoot them all. If I were to be an illegal in any other country what would they do with me Mr?”
Probably not shoot them on site you pathetic little facistic wanna-be.
Iris,
“THERE WOULD BE NO MURDERS OR RAPES OF INNOCENT AMERICAN CITIZENS IF THE ILLEGAL HAD NOT BEEN HERE TO BEGIN WITH.”
Tell it to the victims of Dale Hausner and Samuel Dieteman. Tell it to the family of Officer Daniel Uribe. Tell it to them women raped and murdered by Mark Goudeau.
To quote Jesse Custer: Why are the defenders of the white race always its worst examples?
Russell Pearce says we’re 2nd in the world in kidnappings, 3rd most violent city in America and number one in crime.
But Andrew Thomas says that we’re safer than we were in 2004 when there were a bunch of illegals (before the sanctions law that is working) and crime is down dramatically (over 18%).
Who are we to believe?
“Just because you can find the shift key on your keyboard – I’ll grant that you probably have an eighth-grade education – doesn’t mean everything you “shout” is true.”
Richard- She’s just practicing for the Town Hall…
It appears that we have some like Todd who have no care if this Nation is over run by Illegals.
I lived in Southern Arizona for many years. I had hopes that the County Sheriff would have had the same attitude as Sheriff Joe. Our Police Chief was taking care of the problem until the polititions stepped in and made him stop. Love it or not this is a soverign Nation and our borders should be secure, police should be able to do their job, and the judiciary should incarcerate all who are here as criminals.
How many criminals pass through our borders? How many innocent victims as a result? I do not advocate illegal activity of any nature. Here we are supporting the very ‘illegal’ act of violating borders. It is beyond pathetic – it’s just wrong.
So not a single conservative is willing to state the obvious – that Pearce’s statement is full of lies and distortions. I actually find this surprising.
What I don’t find surprising is that all of you have not even bothered to try to counter what I have said but have instead chosen to ignore the point entirely.
Me,
“How many criminals pass through our borders? How many innocent victims as a result? I do not advocate illegal activity of any nature. Here we are supporting the very ‘illegal’ act of violating borders. It is beyond pathetic – it’s just wrong.”
So, obviously, your only logical response to this is execute anyone, without trial, without bothering to determine why they’re trying to cross the border, etc. is to just execute them.
You should apply for the Erich Honecker citizenship award. You’d be a shoo-in.
I’ll state the obvious. todd’s statements are full of lies and distortions!
There is a good reason his kind are in the minority. It unfortunately will take a serious crime affecting him or a loved one before he ever gets it. Thank God the voters are smarter and keep supporting efforts to re take our Country.
The Mole,
So far all I have seen is insults. Not a single defense of the points I raised.
What a bunch of garbage. Enough of this sickness. Your support of illegals only adds to the already out of control deficit. Have fun arguing, I’m done with this junk. VOTE
Me,
“VOTE”
Or in your case, shoot on sight, eh?
Me,
“Have fun arguing, I’m done with this junk.”
You never started arguing.
Again, not a single conservative is willing to actually defend the claims I have pointed out as false. I assume then that those of you smart enough to understand this know they are incorrect but don’t care or are too afraid to state the obvious.
Todd,
Illegals don’t have an impact on crime? Have you ever read the police beat? Most of the names are south of the border.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Todd is that idiot. The only facts that matter are his. Me, I believe Senator Pearce. He has been to DC many times to testify of the issue and is considered by most to be the expert.
Todd, Klute, Grayson etc.
With all your howling and gnashing of teeth at Sen Pearce, why don’t you answer his basic question?
Why should the rule of law not be applied to immigration?
I’m still waiting for you gentlemen to tackle this!
Billbo
Thanks for demonstrating your complete intellectual bankruptcy. “I believe Pearce because I believe him and others that believe him think he is an expert.”
But again, my point has not been aimed at people who mindlessly accept this misinformation but rather those of you who are smarter than this.
I am done beating the drum on this one. Those of you who know these are lies but won’t stand up should be ashamed.
Todd:
Once again, I’m asking you to convince us that Sen. Pearce is wrong in insisting that the rule of law be applied to immigration from foreign countries.
We’re in dire need of your superior intellect to chart a reasonalble course on this matter!
Carlist,
Because I believe our current immigration policy is wrong? That it is driven by little Honeckers like the “Me” commentator who believe people crossing the border without papers should be shot on sight? That I don’t support policies that are rooted in outdated racist ideology (Pearce’s gleeful support of the ’50s “Operation: Wetback” and his tacit agreement with the racist National Alliance). That I’m not afraid of a minority Anglo America?
Todd is as dumb as they come. He isn’t smart enough to understand the rule of law. His anti American stance is clear. We need the criminals so we can get a competitive edge over the competition. We aren’t good enough if we have play by the rules. That pretty much sums up his ramblings.
He isn’t supported by the facts, reality or the voters. Illegals are not just an Arizona problem Every developed country is fighting this problem.
Here is a simple idea even todd can grasp. Let’s just make our laws on immigration the same as Mexico’s. If you get caught here illegally, you go to jail and then get deported. I’m tired of pay taxes so todd can hire people at slave wages to clean his house and yard.
Klute – Pearce is not a racist, he was quoting the name of a federal program that benefited Mexico and the U.S. We are fed up with this crap of calling someone a racist just because you don’t like their position. It’s not about race, it’s about law. Like most responsible people, we just want the law enforced. Current law, not from the 50′s like you think. The Constitution is from the 18th century. Do you think we need to get rid of it too?
Klute:
When you finish fighting strawmen please respond in an articulate, measured fashion to what is going on. To do so, reacquaint yourself with some history.
1. The current immigration laws (enacted in 1965 and sponsored by Ted Kennedy) effectively replaced those passed in 1924.
Both sets of laws set priorities.
The 1924 legislation sought to maintain a national culture by selecting immigrants who could easily assimilate. Caucasian Europeans were given top priority.
In 1965 “Third World” residents were prioritized for social/economic reasons over Europeans. This was refined to clamp down on Asiatic immigration. Prior to this, the Kennedy Administration cancelled the “Bracero Laws” allowing for migrant labor visas for seasonal agricultural work due to pressure from labor and civil rights organizations.
Since the legal system is now loaded in favor of South of the Border permanent migrants why do you, Todd, Richard Graves and Kral oppose any attempts to enforce it?
If anyone is being discriminated against, it is currently those from European and Asian stocks!
Would you have them re-written to be racially neutral (I for one, would agree) or should Asian and Caucasians be restricted because their skill levels would require higer wages and benefits than the “Burger Barons” are willing to part with?
Or do you wish that immigration laws be abolished?
Please let us know. We’d like to know which camp you and your compatriots inhabit!
Mole,
Take a reading comphrension class.
I said:
“…I don’t support policies that are rooted in outdated racist ideology (Pearce’s gleeful support of the ’50s “Operation: Wetback”….”
I acknowledge the time frame of Operation: Wetback (50s). Pearce has gone on record supporting it. He had no problem with the name. Wetback is a racial slur. All he had to say was “It had an unfortunate name back in the day, but there are some things we can take from it, despite its racist appelation”, but Russell Pearce liked to say the name.
I’d love for you to explain how Operation: Wetback “benefitted” Mexico – that should provide me with hours of amusement.
Current laws has it’s roots in previous laws.
And I don’t call everyone who supports our jackassed immigration policy a racist. I call Pearce a racist because 1. it took him years to disavow the Neo-Nazi JT Ready, and only did so when it became politically untenable for him to do anything else; 2. he received an e-mail from a racist organization and thought to himself “Hmmm, makes sense. I should forward this to everyone”; and 3. he has never disclosed who sent him the mail in the first place. Is he on the National Alliance’s e-mail list? Did it come from JT Ready?
“The Constitution is from the 18th century. Do you think we need to get rid of it too?”
Did you get help setting up that strawman, or did you do it all by yourself?
Klute:
You are a complete idiot and a raciest. Pearce didn’t support the term, he just referred to the program. Pearce was one of the first to say over 50% on illegal immigrants are NOT from Mexico. They come from everywhere.
Now to your asinine question about how the program benefited Mexico, the workers sent back cash! Just like now only legally.
Mole – remember, never argue with an idiot. Let Klute continue to drool on himself and support law breakers. His kind will never have the votes to help La Raza reach their goals anyway. The country and state are based on the rule of law. As long as we keep that focus, his kind are irrelevant.
I point out Pearce’s lies and rather than address that people like Billbo and The Mole, hurl insults and change the subject.
Mole,
You’re right, I am *quite* racy, so the town wags say. However, if you mean “racist”, I’d love to know which race I’m prejudiced against.
So, Operation: Wetback helped the Mexican government by being some of geo-political reverse psychology? HI-larious!
Billbo,
You remind me of a fish, flopping on the ground, gasping for air.
Carlist,
Rather than address it point by point (although I will point out that the 1924 laws were wildly racist – and also worked to keep my family out of America and in a German displacement camp and a Liverpool slum for 3 years), here’s what I believe:
1. If you want to come to America, you should get a sponsor (i.e. an American citizen who is willing to vouch for you and will take responsibility for your actions up to a certain time frame).
2. Register at the border, then welcome in. Here’s a tiny America flag, a copy of the US Constitution, and a CD of John Phillips Sousa marches.
3. Get a job as a fast as possible, and if someone gives you a hard time for being “different”, make them pay by being successful.
Ethnicity, religion, color, creed, sexual orientation, matters not a whit. I can’t wait until there’s an America where there is no majority.
Todd, I’ll take you on. At least partially. And I don’t consider myself a conservative.
Your corrected amount of $650B/year to educate illegal immigrants is still a lot of money. I’ll bet the state could use some of that these days (but I’d rather they just cut programs)
A quick scan of our AZ prison demographic shows Mexican Nationals make up only 14.3% of our state prisons. That seems to support your claim that illegal immigration crime isn’t as bad as we are led to believe. (source: http://www.azcorrections.gov/adc/reports/ethnic.asp) Of course no conclusion about the types of crimes can be drawn – for all we know all the caucasians are in for petty marijuana offenses and all illegals are in for murder and rape. Or the other way around.
The Time magazine article quotes the Immigration Policy Institute as the source of at least some of the research. Just a personal opinion here – I don’t trust any thinktank in Washington to even tell me what time it is. Washington thinktanks exist to build support around Washington policies, not the other way around. Washington’s policy has clearly been amnesty. It is not surprising that a DC policy center would show research that supports illegal immigration.
The same article says “the number of illegal immigrants in the country doubled between 1994 and 2005, violent crime declined by nearly 35% and property crimes by 26% over the same period.” There is no cause and effect that can be inferred here. You can’t read that statement and logically conclude really anything. How do they even know that illegal immigration population doubled at that time? Today they can’t decide whether there are 10 million or 20 million or ?? million illegals living here. DC policy wonks again.
You say, “According to Pew, the CIS claimed decrease is inflated and in fact illegal immigrants are not leaving the country in any unusually high numbers,” but anecdotal evidence in these comment boards suggests that may not be the case. Indeed the CIS is another DC thinktank that I personally wouldn’t trust to give me change for a dollar – no matter what their conclusions were.
The Time magazine article states, ‘”People who make the decision to come here from another country want to get ahead, establish a better life,” says Harvard sociology professor Robert Sampson. “That dream is not something they’re likely to risk by getting arrested.” ‘ I totally agree – for the non criminals. Criminals could be immigrating to escape authorities in their own countries. Indeed – existing laws against rape and murder have not deterred a portion of any country’s population; they won’t care much about immigration law.
Still, how can we have such a reduction in violent crime, but still be the #2 kidnapping city in the world?
Many posts here can be summarized, “it doesn’t matter what general survey results are about a demographic, they are breaking the law.” True.
But I believe our authorities should be prioritizing their enforcement resources. Raiding working stiffs seems a low priority to me when we have plenty of kidnappings and undelivered felony warrants to worry about.
—-
We are getting splattered with contradictory data, anecdotes, and opinions left and right. Maybe someday we’ll know the truth.
Rosco P Coltrane,
“for all we know all the caucasians are in for petty marijuana offenses and all illegals are in for murder and rape”
This would go against every known statistic about crime and incarceration.
“It is not surprising that a DC policy center would show research that supports illegal immigration.”
It seems the rest of your objections are that you don’t trust anyone who tries to estimate statistics. This position is really impossible to argue against. Either you look at the numbers from different sources and try to determine which is most likely accurate. If you simply discount all of it then from what position can you argue anything.
I would lastly point out that I was not just saying the crime statistics Pearce is citing are wrong, I am saying sources for such claims are non-existent.
“Todd,
Illegals don’t have an impact on crime? Have you ever read the police beat? Most of the names are south of the border.”
What a disgusting comment.
I want America to hear more of what the anti-illegal immigrant community and its leaders like Simcox and David Duke think.
That is what I want.