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	<title>Comments on: Leaders and Sideliners</title>
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	<description>Arizona Politics, News, Commentary and Information with a Blatantly Conservative Worldview Presented by an Alliance of Writers, Activists, Consultants and Government Insiders.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antifederalist</title>
		<link>http://sonoranalliance.com/2008/09/29/leaders-and-sideliners/comment-page-1/#comment-91984</link>
		<dc:creator>Antifederalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=3128#comment-91984</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure that the AP story on Mitchell and the colored voting cards is incorrect...unless they&#039;ve changed the voting system within the last 2 or 3 years.  I was given a tour of the House floor by a Congressman.  He explained to me that voting was done by putting an ID card into a reader, then pushing the colored BUTTON next to the slot to register the vote, green for yes or red for no.  I&#039;ve seen these voting devices which are affixed to the back of the benches in the House with my own eyes.

My guess is that the reporting got garbled.  I bet Mitchell cast his vote and the board above the House floor reflected his no vote.  My guess is that he may have still held his ID card in his hand...perhaps signaling that he could be flipped, but then again, it could mean nothing, that he was simply holding his card.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure that the AP story on Mitchell and the colored voting cards is incorrect&#8230;unless they&#8217;ve changed the voting system within the last 2 or 3 years.  I was given a tour of the House floor by a Congressman.  He explained to me that voting was done by putting an ID card into a reader, then pushing the colored BUTTON next to the slot to register the vote, green for yes or red for no.  I&#8217;ve seen these voting devices which are affixed to the back of the benches in the House with my own eyes.</p>
<p>My guess is that the reporting got garbled.  I bet Mitchell cast his vote and the board above the House floor reflected his no vote.  My guess is that he may have still held his ID card in his hand&#8230;perhaps signaling that he could be flipped, but then again, it could mean nothing, that he was simply holding his card.</p>
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		<title>By: George of the Desert</title>
		<link>http://sonoranalliance.com/2008/09/29/leaders-and-sideliners/comment-page-1/#comment-91759</link>
		<dc:creator>George of the Desert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=3128#comment-91759</guid>
		<description>You want to blame the MINORITY party for failure of a vote?

House rules are so tremendously tilted in favor of the majority that a failed vote is extremely rare.

The last time I recall a bill so handily going to defeat was the original 1994 Crime Bill.  The then-Democrat leadership of Tom Foley and Dick Gephardt was caught flat-footed and embarassed by the loss.

Rule #1 for House leadership: NEVER bring a vote to the floor when you don&#039;t have the votes.  These guys weren&#039;t even close.  That&#039;s just incompetent.

Of course, this is all academic.  I don&#039;t care if you&#039;re GOP or a Dem; if the phones are ringing off the hook and constituents are telling you they don&#039;t like the bill, you need to pay attention.  Any lawmaker who ignores public outcries like that will need to find work in the private sector.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You want to blame the MINORITY party for failure of a vote?</p>
<p>House rules are so tremendously tilted in favor of the majority that a failed vote is extremely rare.</p>
<p>The last time I recall a bill so handily going to defeat was the original 1994 Crime Bill.  The then-Democrat leadership of Tom Foley and Dick Gephardt was caught flat-footed and embarassed by the loss.</p>
<p>Rule #1 for House leadership: NEVER bring a vote to the floor when you don&#8217;t have the votes.  These guys weren&#8217;t even close.  That&#8217;s just incompetent.</p>
<p>Of course, this is all academic.  I don&#8217;t care if you&#8217;re GOP or a Dem; if the phones are ringing off the hook and constituents are telling you they don&#8217;t like the bill, you need to pay attention.  Any lawmaker who ignores public outcries like that will need to find work in the private sector.</p>
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		<title>By: kralmajales</title>
		<link>http://sonoranalliance.com/2008/09/29/leaders-and-sideliners/comment-page-1/#comment-91719</link>
		<dc:creator>kralmajales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=3128#comment-91719</guid>
		<description>Nice post Richard.

By the way, did some of you here get instruction to &quot;pack up&quot; the anti-immigration debate?  Not a word of it at the GOP convention, rarely a word on the conservative blogs.

Getting close to election time...you don&#039;t mind offending Hispanic voters in off years but as the election gets closer its...crickets that I hear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post Richard.</p>
<p>By the way, did some of you here get instruction to &#8220;pack up&#8221; the anti-immigration debate?  Not a word of it at the GOP convention, rarely a word on the conservative blogs.</p>
<p>Getting close to election time&#8230;you don&#8217;t mind offending Hispanic voters in off years but as the election gets closer its&#8230;crickets that I hear.</p>
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		<title>By: kralmajales</title>
		<link>http://sonoranalliance.com/2008/09/29/leaders-and-sideliners/comment-page-1/#comment-91718</link>
		<dc:creator>kralmajales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=3128#comment-91718</guid>
		<description>Ok...this post is tremendously weak.  Arguing that Mitchell had two votes in his mind is hardly a problem.  Most republicans that spoke after the bill said it was among the most difficult decisions they had ever had to make...and many made it at the last moment.

On Giffords, nice try...you don&#039;t have shred of anything on her about her vote, wavering, or anything like it.

It is going to be interesting how this all falls out.  The fallout so far has been disappointment in the 95 Dems that voted against it...but massive anger against the House republicans who overwhelmingly vote against it and pulled it apart.  As the market dropped 777 points, businesses were freaked, and retirees are losing their income, you can bet there will be fallout...more of it.

This may be the final nail in the coffin of business supporting the GOP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok&#8230;this post is tremendously weak.  Arguing that Mitchell had two votes in his mind is hardly a problem.  Most republicans that spoke after the bill said it was among the most difficult decisions they had ever had to make&#8230;and many made it at the last moment.</p>
<p>On Giffords, nice try&#8230;you don&#8217;t have shred of anything on her about her vote, wavering, or anything like it.</p>
<p>It is going to be interesting how this all falls out.  The fallout so far has been disappointment in the 95 Dems that voted against it&#8230;but massive anger against the House republicans who overwhelmingly vote against it and pulled it apart.  As the market dropped 777 points, businesses were freaked, and retirees are losing their income, you can bet there will be fallout&#8230;more of it.</p>
<p>This may be the final nail in the coffin of business supporting the GOP.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://sonoranalliance.com/2008/09/29/leaders-and-sideliners/comment-page-1/#comment-91677</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=3128#comment-91677</guid>
		<description>House Republicans led the way and will get most of the blame. It has been interesting to watch them on their single-minded mission to destroy the Republican Party. Not long ago, they led an anti-immigration crusade that drove away Hispanic support. Then, too, they listened to the loudest and angriest voices in their party, oblivious to the complicated anxieties that lurk in most American minds.

Now they have once again confused talk radio with reality. If this economy slides, they will go down in history as the Smoot-Hawleys of the 21st century. With this vote, they’ve taken responsibility for this economy, and they will be held accountable. The short-term blows will fall on John McCain, the long-term stress on the existence of the G.O.P. as we know it. 

-- David Brooks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>House Republicans led the way and will get most of the blame. It has been interesting to watch them on their single-minded mission to destroy the Republican Party. Not long ago, they led an anti-immigration crusade that drove away Hispanic support. Then, too, they listened to the loudest and angriest voices in their party, oblivious to the complicated anxieties that lurk in most American minds.</p>
<p>Now they have once again confused talk radio with reality. If this economy slides, they will go down in history as the Smoot-Hawleys of the 21st century. With this vote, they’ve taken responsibility for this economy, and they will be held accountable. The short-term blows will fall on John McCain, the long-term stress on the existence of the G.O.P. as we know it. </p>
<p>&#8211; David Brooks</p>
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		<title>By: anonimity</title>
		<link>http://sonoranalliance.com/2008/09/29/leaders-and-sideliners/comment-page-1/#comment-91645</link>
		<dc:creator>anonimity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=3128#comment-91645</guid>
		<description>Shadegg has had no trouble taking a stand including calling for Paulson&#039;s resignation. No waiting for the political wind there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shadegg has had no trouble taking a stand including calling for Paulson&#8217;s resignation. No waiting for the political wind there.</p>
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		<title>By: todd</title>
		<link>http://sonoranalliance.com/2008/09/29/leaders-and-sideliners/comment-page-1/#comment-91622</link>
		<dc:creator>todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=3128#comment-91622</guid>
		<description>Attempting to read the minds of politicians never seems like a winning proposition so I really don&#039;t get how one can claim one group acted out on &quot;principle&quot; and the other group acted from some other motives. I can see the argument for Franks, but Shadegg? It would be just as easy to claim that he waited all this time for &quot;input&quot; so he could see which way the political wind was blowing.  Trent Franks - one might as well try to discern what a rock thinks - and using Rick Renzi and &quot;principle&quot; in the same sentence is only excusable if being sarcastic. 

I certainly won&#039;t claim to know why the rest voted the way they did, but at least we can be thankful they didn&#039;t vote to give a huge handout to Wall Street.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attempting to read the minds of politicians never seems like a winning proposition so I really don&#8217;t get how one can claim one group acted out on &#8220;principle&#8221; and the other group acted from some other motives. I can see the argument for Franks, but Shadegg? It would be just as easy to claim that he waited all this time for &#8220;input&#8221; so he could see which way the political wind was blowing.  Trent Franks &#8211; one might as well try to discern what a rock thinks &#8211; and using Rick Renzi and &#8220;principle&#8221; in the same sentence is only excusable if being sarcastic. </p>
<p>I certainly won&#8217;t claim to know why the rest voted the way they did, but at least we can be thankful they didn&#8217;t vote to give a huge handout to Wall Street.</p>
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