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A more appropriate comparison is San Francisco culture to Henderson or Maricopa county. The demographics speak for themselves.

Looking at it in totality — home prices, types of housing, jobs, schools, community events, parks, can you put a Christian fish on your car and not get flipped off — people choose red state America over blue states, and they choose America over Europe.

Again, I am using the rule that people chose their environment to live in, that’s how you decide the goodness or one over the other. Not that people are bad, per se.

Charles, I love your original posts of evil Republicans followed up with accusing me of “bias and blame.” Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! You and my brother should get together. He’s a member of MoveOn.org and you two can talk about how “mainstream” you are.

That’s a weak defense of your position. The point I’m making is that trying to pin the hypocrite label on Tedski for not pushing a talking point from the GOP is thin soup for a group of analysts who have gone bankrupt with their sausage making ideas.

America is much better than where the Bush regime has taken us. We are not an ‘Amerika’ nor are we the shining example that everyone who wants a car must follow.

We are better than our leaders and politicians, and our diversity is what prevents us from becoming the dictatorship that many fear.

Our embrace of many races and cultures is what has made us the shining example that the world once respected.

When Bush, Limbaugh and Cheney all trend towards the oblivion that their poll numbers suggest, then I suggest you find a more compelling strategy than calling Tedski a hypocrite for a racist DEM remark somewhere in Louisiana.

America IS much better than you portray it with strange rhetorical accusations of bias and blame.

My argument is mainstream and hopeful for a better tomorrow. The future is in finding common ground rather than smearing our fellow citizens.

Let me make you madder by adding another fact.

As I noted about 6 months ago, more people are leaving Germany than immigrating to it, despite Germany’s “free” healthcare and semi-socialist economy. America beats out every EU country as the top destination for Germans. This includes german speaking Austria.

Based on that, do we need add another variable to your equation? X+1+USA, where USA is the desire to be in this country.

As for Hilary, we survived Carter and Nixon. As long as Hilary does not have us follow Europe, we will remain a strong country and the Europeans, Canadians and rest of the world can come here for quality health care and a good standard of living.

As for the definition of “morally superior”, I am basing that on the individual choices made by millions of other people to chose to in one place over another. I do not force my opinions of morality on others, hint hint…

Right, I mostly agree. The point was this: does that comment, assuming it is 100% true, mean that America is also the most morally good nation as well?

If you think something being most desirable for people to possess (residency in the U.S.) makes something morally superior than something that is less desired, you have a truly screwed up view of morality. People being rational actors within a free-market system does not mean that the country with the best free-market system = best country when it comes to morals. For example, is Playboy morally superior to a magazine that has lesser subscription sales (say Time magazine) because it is more desired by people within the marketplace? Assuming you say no, then it must be something OTHER than it’s desirability in the market that determines moral goodness. IN the same way, it is something OTHER than people coming in or out of a country that determines its moral goodness.

That is the point I am trying to make. Now let’s apply:

“My point about moral goodness was a response to Charles’ Amerika comments. We are not perfect now, never have been, but if we were as bad the left-wing nuts say we are, why do millions, if not billions, of non-whites dream of coming here?”

Really? Because they live in a country where their potential utility is X, whereas in the U.S. their utility is X+1(at a minimum). Assuming that they are rational, they will move to where they can maximize whatever utility is to them. Now, of course, they have to factor costs into this. So, if it costs them 1 to move to America (cost of leaving friends, risk factors of getting cost, etc) then they will not move. If on the other hand, there are only .5 costs, then they will move, because they will have a net gain of .5. That doesn’t have anything to do with the inherent goodness of America as compared to other nations. Say for example it turns out that Great Britian would be X+2 (and I am NOT saying this is true, I know you like to fight strawmen Chad). Well, under your system, they are morally superior to us. However, people from Mexico will still want to come to the U.S., even though it is only X+1, because lets plug in random numbers and say that the costs for someone coming form Mexico are 2 to get to England (difficulty in actually getting there, much further, no distinct hispanic poplulation already established, etc), and still only .5, then they will still come to the U.S., because they are back at X will a move to GB, but up .5 in coming to the U.S.

There are also all sorts of problem with heuristics, in that the availability of the U.S. is much closer, everyone they know that moves goes to the U.S., etc., free rider problems that may not accurately reflect the market. We could go in circle all days about those sort of things.

So, again, America may have the most ‘freedom-loving laws’ but that DOES NOT make it inherently morally superior, which is what you were claiming.

Last, if Hillary is elected in 2008, I certainly hope that you will not complain about the job she does, because I promise you that there will be just as many people trying to get into our country while she is President. In fact, if you are so sure that she is going to do such a horrible job, that means that less people would come to our country in your theory, so you should want her! If immigration is number 1, and immigration goes down when we have a less free society (the contra-positive of your argument), then let’s get the most big government, president we can!

Can you imagine the lions of Arizona conservatism attacking Tedski for not pushing a GOP racism thread?

Would Barry Goldwater, Ev Meacham, Fife Symington or Jane Hull attack Tedski for such trivial nonsense?

How far the mighty have fallen.

In America, we actually like our neighbors. We are not an cartoonlike episode of ’24,’ but a nation of diversity and conflict.

Real conservatives know how to spell and respect honest discourse.

Even Franco’s dictatorship provided health care and social security.

Our embargo of Cuba institutionalized Castro, and Cuban health care keeps the old bastard alive.

The GOP prefers a dog eat dog governance to anything resembling a dictatorship.

That said, we are still number one in incarcerating criminals. So maybe we can cobble a police state out of the ruins of Bush’s lack of governance for the people.

If Bush wanted to be a decent dictator, he would nationalize the steel and petroleum industries, like our trade partner China.

But he will privatize to the point of pseudo-anarchy. Toll roads, anyone?

As for Delaware, on paper, their laws encourage corporations to locate there. So corporate entities, which may or may not include people and physical presence, file their papers in Delaware.

Both examples prove my point from a “behavorial economics” point of view.

My point about moral goodness was a response to Charles’ Amerika comments. We are not perfect now, never have been, but if we were as bad the left-wing nuts say we are, why do millions, if not billions, of non-whites dream of coming here?

How come there are no stories of Americans fleeing in dingy rafts to Cuba or sneaking across the border to Mexico?

The answer is simple: America’s free-market, capitalist democracy provides the freest and most prosperous nation in the world.

We do some good, and we do some bad. But we have chronic problems that are the legacy of our darker corners of history.

Bigotry and racism ebbs and flows, as do notions of American superiority and exclusiveness.

I support an America that brings back the Bill of Rights,habeas corpus, and the dignity of being a laborer working for the promise of our Constitutional government.

Are we there yet?

Huh?

I am a little confused as to how you have come to such a conclusion. The behavioral economist argument would be:

(1) People are rational
(2) Rationality necessarily entails a desire to maximize your utility
(3) Assuming no information problems, people will move to where they can maximize their utility
(4) therefore the countries that people move to are countries which are most efficient at maximizing individual agents utility.

Ok, fair enough argument; and *probably* correct. But I think your statement then entails an assumption Chad: Availability of utility maximization = moral goodness.

So let’s extend moral goodness and assume that it can be attached to Corporations (“corporatism”- let’s assume it’s true for a second). If this is in fact the case, does this mean that Delaware is morally superior to Arizona because more companies want to incorporate (“move”) there? I would say no, but Chad, I think you will have to say yes. To me this seems an absurd result.

The Reagan story was debunked long ago. That’s the liberal hate machine. Of course they fail to mention Jimmy Carter’s blantant appeal to racism in 1976 and earlier when he ran for Gov.

You can also look up Michael Steele and how the Dems threw oreo cookies at him. Or google and Condi Rice and Colin Powell, not too mention the condescending comments made about Clarence Thomas. How about JC Watts and the ad about “this boy representing you in Congress.” We could go on…

David Duke is not a member of the Klan, so I guess you two are supportive of him. I do not trust Duke nor Byrd.

So are you comfortable with someone equating the Boy Scouts with the Klan?

Here’s the story on Byrd:

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/03/04/byrd.slur/

Despite Charles’ Amerika is evil postings, the fact is he is here and probably 95% of the world’s desire the American green card.

My wife helped thousands of Haitian and West African immigrants get into this country. Every immigrant just gushed about wonderful and open-minded Americans are. And they were shocked about how whiney and self-loathing many of its citizens were.